I actually think that EVs isn't the long term answer. Infrastructure wise, cost wise, and even it's not all 'green' as the manufacturers tell you. If you look at at Japan, I think that's the future of transportation. Electric trains/bullet trains/electric buses. Maybe next 100 years or so, there probably won't be cars at all.
{disclaimer I have been in Japan more than 25 times, and ridden the varius railways often.} The transportation system is Japan simply works !! it loses money every year but it works !! it is entirely supported by taxes (along with rider fees)!?! Imagine arriving back hoome after a day of work and being able to do your gocery, and drinks shopping immediately under the platform the train delivered you too !! However, systems like that only work if everyone benefits rather equally. So, such a system would not work here as we are currently having a cold civil war between the rural areas and the urbanized areas. A system like that in Japan would work rather well for the Urban areas, and fail miserably in the rural ones. So, getting *.gov involved is a non-starter.
I didn't say it's the answer, but that is the direction propulsion is going in. Maybe hydrogen will be in the mix or win out over EV's. What's clear is that ICE will be extinct in short order regardless of sentiment. US will never embrace public transport at scale, and as major developing countries (eg. China, India) gain in prosperity there will continue to be an increase in demand for personal vehicles. 100 years from now is anyone's guess...maybe we will be teleporting by then. So back to where we started, it's foolish for F1 to try to rationalize road engine technology development. It's time they realize that the powertrain will no longer be relevant to road cars and that the sport will be for entertainment only. Bring back the 20,000rpm NA engines and make fans happy.
An ICE can never be as efficient as a power unit with no moving parts (fuel cell). An ICE can never be as efficient as a power unit is exactly one moving part (motor). I think you have just written our epitath; for if we do not find some other way to move people around that works for both urban and rural areas rather equally, we are doomed. F1 teleportion races, anyone ?? Strongly agree !
Audi respond to Red Bull link-up rumours Audi have denied they are harbouring any plans to enter Formula 1 in the foreseeable future. The German manufacturer were recently linked with becoming an engine supplier to Red Bull, whose current provider, Honda, are withdrawing from the sport at the end of this year. For 2022, and until significant changes to the engine regulations kick in three years later, Red Bull are set to bring the Honda operation in-house by way of acquiring the Japanese company’s intellectual property. They have already revealed plans to establish their own engine shop at the Milton Keynes HQ, which will be called Red Bull Powertrains. A vote which was passed on Thursday to freeze engine development, and thus save costs, gave this project the green light. However, Auto Motor und Sport reported that talks had earlier been hindered by rumours that Audi were interested in becoming a Formula 1 engine manufacturer from 2025. Another name linked in similar terms has been Porsche, especially given F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali’s declaration recently that he had conducted talks with potential new manufacturers. Now Audi have rejected claims that they are considering becoming involved with F1. https://www.planetf1.com/news/audi-formula-1-interest-response/
Now Audi have rejected claims that they are considering becoming involved with F1. https://www.planetf1.com/news/audi-formula-1-interest-response/
They are working on 2 full programs already: Formula E and IMSA (with a LMDh). The former to showcase the electrification of their range, the later in support of their largest export market. What could F1 offer Audi better than that ?
I doubt we will ever see Audi/Porsche in F1. 2 reasons; the current Formula is a joke, and keeping fans away. There's no ROI, and secondly, we hear this nonsense rumour every other year. Nothing has happen/will happen. It's akin to Ferrari's yearly promise of 'next year' since 2008.
Pouring money into F1 as VW/Audi fight the results of diesel cheating, shift to E transport in the entire lineup take any reasonable amount of resources away from an F1 effort. I dont see this as possible, yet VW and family are large and well funded still. I believe you are correct.
VW can easily afford to field an F1 team. They just have little to gain by it as they would probably never rise above the mid field at best given the current rules that are bias towards Mercedes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Formula 1: Porsche & Volkswagen Group considering entering F1 Image Unavailable, Please Login Porsche and parent company the Volkswagen Group are considering entering Formula 1. Any move depends on the direction of the sport's next engine regulations, which are due to be introduced in 2025. Porsche Motorsport vice-president Fritz Enzinger told BBC Sport: "It would be of great interest if aspects of sustainability - for instance, the implementation of e-fuels - play a role in this. "Should these aspects be confirmed, we will evaluate them in detail within the VW Group and discuss further steps." E-fuels are carbon-neutral fuels that can power internal combustion engines without the environmental impact of traditional fossil fuels. They come in a number of forms, including bio-fuels, which are made from bio-mass, and synthetic fuels, which are manufactured by an industrial process that captures carbon from the atmosphere. F1 has committed to making e-fuels a central part of the sport from 2025. Senior F1 figures say Porsche has been involved in the discussion around the new engine rules. Enzinger said: "Porsche and Volkswagen AG are observing the constantly changing regulations in all relevant racing series around the world. This is also the case with regard to the emerging new engine and drivetrain regulation for Formula 1 from 2025." Talks between relevant parties over the new F1 rules have moved on to the detail of regulations, which are part of a wider plan for the sport to achieve net-zero carbon status by 2030. Enzinger said Porsche and VW were "currently not actively represented in these forums". Which team could Porsche and VW join with? If Volkswagen Group (VAG) did commit to entering F1, it would be likely to be with either its Porsche or Audi brands, sources say. And it is not clear whether any entry would be as a full works team, in the manner of Mercedes, or as an engine supplier to an existing entrant. VAG is said to have had initial exploratory talks with three teams - Red Bull, McLaren and Williams. Red Bull have obvious appeal because of their level of competitiveness and absence of ties to a car manufacturer. Their engine partner Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of this season and Red Bull have struck a deal to take over the Japanese company's power-units and run them until the end of 2024. Red Bull have not commented on Porsche but team principal Christian Horner said last month they were open to a partnership with a car manufacturer, also known as OEMs. "If an exciting partner comes along, then of course it makes sense to look at it very seriously, whether it be an OEM or another type of partner," said Horner. Meanwhile, Williams's recently appointed chief executive, Jost Capito, has had a long career as an executive at VAG. The 62-year-old was head of VW Motorsport from 2012 to 2016 and returned to the German giant in its high-performance road-car division in 2017 after a brief period at McLaren. Capito also worked at Porsche between 1989 and 1996. Williams declined to comment. McLaren - whose team principal, Andreas Seidl, is the former head of Porsche motorsport - is embarking this season on a new customer engine contract with Mercedes. A McLaren spokesperson said: "We never comment on speculation." New F1 president Stefano Domenicali is also a former VW Group executive. The 55-year-old joined F1 in January after five years as CEO of Lamborghini, which is part of VAG. Before that, he was VAG's head of future projects. He was working on an F1 feasibility study for the company when it was hit by the diesel-gate emissions scandal, which curtailed the plans. That was the second time in the past decade that VW Group shied away from an F1 programme after investigating the idea. It was also involved in discussions over the current engines at the start of the 2010s before ultimately deciding to focus on endurance racing. What will F1's new engines be like? The 2025 F1 engines will centre on hybrid power - combining internal combustion engines with an electrical and regenerative element. The aim is to have a larger proportion of their total power output created by electricity and energy recovery than the current F1 engines. The high-tech turbo-hybrid engines used in F1 since 2014 have instigated a technical revolution in terms of thermal efficiency - the rate of conversion of fuel-energy into usable power. They have a thermal-efficiency rating of more than 50% compared with the 30% of a typical road-going petrol engine. However, they are complex and expensive and F1 bosses say they want to ensure the new engines are more cost-effective. Many road-car manufacturers are interested in e-fuels as a solution for carbon-neutral power as there are limitations to the practical implementation of electric cars for all purposes. And Porsche is already building its own manufacturing plant for synthetic fuels in southern Chile . E-fuels could also be of use in areas in which batteries are not suitable, such as air travel, where a battery sufficient to power an aeroplane would make it too heavy to fly. Domenicali said last month: "Electrification, full electric, is not the only way for the future [of road cars]. "So the hybridisation that we want to offer in the future is the right platform on which [manufacturers] can present their product. "Hybrid will be a diversified platform on which they can invest and promote the efficiency of their power-unit or power-train. "Carbon neutrality is the other element at the centre of our discussion - eco-fuel, organic fuel. "The good thing is all the OEMs and [F1] teams share this view together." https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/56272450
Interesting times ahead !! You have to feel sorry for the oil producing countries if this catches on !!!
If synthetic fuels are economically viable then it will completely rebalance the geopolitical maps of much of the world. A period of great imbalances is about to begin..
Would be interesting, but I wouldn't get any hopes up, not any time soon at least. Audi and Porsche are listed as having cars entered alongside Acura in the upcoming LMDh class in 2023, which to my understanding, will be the top class at Le Mans & within' IMSA. That seems like quite an expensive operation going on under VAG, although I guess Audi leaving Formula-E might help offset that cost. Just seems like their focus is there.
The VW operations assess what is being developed and what the intersection of those efforts are, to VW. So far no car has been produced. The engine technology is interesting and it pays to monitor those developments in F1. Name a single car reflecting the PU produced in F1. One being made by Mercedes that is not at all a common road machine. Porsche would do better to enable synthetic fuel and racing in sportscars. Good visibility and less cost without absurd political 'drama' F1 exudes externally.
For VW to be in F1 - it only makes sense for Lamborghini or Bugatti. or VW on its own. or perhaps Skoda or Seat, but those names are so less known. Bugatti and Porsche are the only two marques that have any F-1 heritage - connection etc... and neither have done well in Modern F1 from 1950 to today. Porsche - TAG engine excepted... if you consider that a Porsche AG factory effort then they have Won that & been there... their last foray into F-1 in the 90's was horrible, and embarrassing. Lamborghini same thing... almost no racing heritage from the factory - until lately... and Bugatti - well, its whatever it is , but its not the real Bugatti which was much like Ferrari... racing 1st then cars 2nd until the war.
Audi & Porsche want future F1 cars to adopt four-wheel drive? Image Unavailable, Please Login Jul.13 - Volkswagen brands Audi and Porsche want Formula 1 to adopt four-wheel drive for the next set of engine regulations from 2025 or 2026. The CEOs of both German luxury carmakers attended Formula 1's recent meeting at the Red Bull Ring to discuss the future of the engine rules. Writing in La Gazzetta dello Sport, correspondent Andrea Cremonesi said all the stakeholders fundamentally agree that F1 is sticking with its hybrid concept, but making it simpler and cheaper. The details are less clear, but according to Cremonesi, Volkswagen may only consider entering F1 with one of its brands if a fundamental element changes. "Strengthened by the experiences in WEC and Formula E, the two German manufacturers put forward the proposal to introduce four-wheel drive," he said. Cremonesi said Porsche and Audi's idea is for the front wheels to be powered by a new electric motor. He explained that while Mercedes, Renault and Red Bull are not keen on the idea, Ferrari is "open to any solution" that costs less and continues to emphasise hybrid technology. According to Cremonesi, one likely change for 2025-2026 is the scrapping of the expensive, complex, heavy and noise-suppressing MGU-H energy recovery technology. "Only the MGU-K would remain, but the recovery of the kinetic energy would be increased with the use of a more powerful component," he explained. As for the combustion engine, the 1.6 litre V6 looks set to stay, offset by the introduction of sustainable fuels. "In Europe," said Mercedes' Toto Wolff, "we can all imagine driving electric vehicles by 2030. "But in the rest of the world, we will still have millions of vehicles - including Mercedes vehicles - running on petrol. "So what we can do is contribute with our innovation to develop sustainable fuels, whether bio or synthetic," he added. https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/audi-porsche-want-future-f1-cars-to-adopt-four-wheel-drive/
Clever bit of PR from VW, it seems. They put themselves in the frame as a potential competitor in F1, knowing full well that their 4wd proposal is likely to be refused. Maybe a way of saying that the WEC has the edge over F1 in terms of technology, to justify their choice perhaps?
AWD will only add more complexity and costs while Not adding much to the show But wet races could become more interesting
