time has come to say goodbye- to Manzoni

Remember, the Roma is not a commercial success in Europe…

 

To me, ethnocentric as I am, that matters not. because the perception of what a Ferrari is had to change and change fast for it to survive in the US. I think of the Roma as a welcome alternative to Aston Martin and Jaguar, with a more celebrated engine. Aston has stumbled a couple times recently and all it takes is a single mis-step (which is why they are using some Mercedes engines) to be ineligible for the US market. If they make a mistake and are locked out, Ferrari will be only too happy to swoop in with a very classy yet conservative front engined car, maybe as a hybrid in the next gen Think of Matthew Mcconaughey in his rom-coms vs. Arnold Schwarzenegger in his muscleman roles your wife wants tp meet Matthew , not a cave man like Arnold.

 

My wife would rather meet Matthew than Arnold, but she also prefers our 812, Pista, F12, FF, Pista, etc, to the Roma. I just asked her. Which of those or other models is a “caveman”?

I think the Roma is elegant (and simultaneously a bit derivative) and a wise move to meet the marketplace’s desire for an entry-level Ferrari at essentially half the price of higher-range models. But your rhetoric about it being a new critical move to ensure Ferrari’s U.S. survival seems hyperbolic. Ferrari has been selling plenty of its upper range models without too much trouble, and the California and Portofino sat at pretty much the same price point as the Roma. What has changed so dramatically about “the perception of what a Ferrari is” with the Roma’s introduction?

 

When the new Lotus Emira looks more appealing than a 296GTB at a 1/4 of the price--Ferrari is in big trouble. Fix the damn tail lights.

 

According to who?
Their sales never been higher and their stock price is at/near all time highs.
They seem to be doing fine to me
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Haters gonna hate...

 

You're not paying attention. They went from 10,000 to 9,000 units

 

The Emira (like the Artura) looks like a cheap 488 knockoff. It should be 1/4 of the price.

 

U are aware of Covid 19 right? [emoji23]


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No, the Emira has a proper spoiler, which Ferrari are afraid to try on production cars. Only saved for limited runs a la 812 Competizione.

 

Maybe it’s just the Florida market, but try to go into a dealership and order a car. Wait times have never been longer. Also, my dealership doesn’t even advertise used Ferraris anymore. My sales guy said that when trades come in, they are normally spoken for before the cars hit the sales floor. I’m thinking Ferrari will survive!!!

 

To go with a proper 2 litre 4 cylinder base engine.

 

It is not just the FL market. My dealer says they are busier than ever. Used (including other brands) and new as well.

 

Emira @3,000lb < 296GTB @ 3,600lb. Lighter is more "go kart feeling"

 

A lawn mower engine will give you a go kart feeling, too.

 

Are we really talking about Emira (which will be great) in the same breath as 296? Come on. Very different cars. Nobody ever talked about the Cayman, looks or otherwise, against an F8, 488 or 458. They are just not relevant to each other. If you want to consider 296, pit it against Artura, the only other PHEV £200k V6 hybrid supercar. Could also include Huracan since it is similar price and the fact it is not a hybrid is probably irrelevant to most customers.

Regardless of the negative opinions I’m convinced Manzoni will be seen as a Ferrari legend in the future.

Manzoni’s record;

LaFerrari not criticised anywhere of note regarding its looks and seems prettier than the Enzo

812, drawing on the wonderful Daytona, is much leaner and tauter than F12, though F12 owners often prefer the older car, GTS model is utterly beautiful in the flesh and Competizione is seen as successful even when compared against one of the most beautiful cars Ferrari have produced in the last 20 years, the TDF, which is also a Manzoni design update of the PF-penned F12.

488 is in no way a bad looking car though it is a pretty common view that PF’s 458 is nicer. The truth is that the 488 has a very strong link to the 458 and has updated styling influenced by the fact that side vents became necessary due to the turbocharged engine, something Manzoni had nothing to do with deciding. Pista was universally acclaimed and will undoubtedly become a classic on appearance alone, just like Speciale (also a Manzoni update of a PF design).

Lusso smoothes the edges of the FF which (as an owner of both I could compare side-by-side) had some wonderful bits but some odd bits. The Lusso was pretty everywhere and while it was less in-your-face, this approach suited what Ferrari’s 4-seater was trying to be. A more professional and confident approach (didn’t feel the need to shock, was happy to let the car be understated and very classy).

Portofino > California and Roma acknowledged to be very beautiful. Some say it apes Aston Martin but there are enough Ferrari cues in there to give Manzoni the benefit of the doubt, and, of course, nothing wrong with Aston Martin’s past aesthetics (though some of their recent designs should be criticised and I’m not sure Reichman’s designs will be seen as well in that brand as I believe Manzoni’s will for Ferrari).

And to 296. This car has such a clear link to a very interesting but not often referenced Ferrari classic - 250 LM - that I think he must just be showing off now. A modern V6 PHEV, so closely related to this wonderful old car, yet so modern and fresh and at the same time looking beautiful but also able to be ‘Tailor Made’ with some very exotic old racing liveries as per one of the launch cars. There are no jarring lines, this is not Lamborghini, Aston or McLaren. This car maximises the legacy which Manzoni inherited and creates a thoroughly new look at the same time. I think this is going to be a spectacular car and I have no doubt that it will be sales success in a way that some other companies might struggle in terms of interpreting their products into the hybrid era.

The most unfortunate thing I suppose is that it’s Manzoni’s name that will be in the history books but these cars must be the work of a very very good team. You know when a designer/team gets it wrong. The cars don’t sell very easily in a consistent market. I don’t see that happening in the 6 or so years he has been around. In fact, I see the reverse. Call me a fanboy if you wish, but these are facts. When you are dealing with something so subjective as looks, the opinions of few don’t carry the day. The best indicator is the increasing numbers of people ready to stump up enough money to buy a house just to buy a car with a Ferrari badge on it. The cars I have bought from Ferrari more recently have had no less a reception from my friends and family than the older cars. Why this incessant drive to criticise what’s new and proclaim the doom of one of the most powerful and evocative brands in the world? I didn’t make it like that but others seem to report that - for example Brand Finance Global named Ferrari the world’s strongest brand in 19 and 20. Beyond criticism? No. Beyond derision? I think they’ve earned that.

 

Well, you nailed it IMO. The incessant whining about the departure of Pininfarina from some has become tiresome. I loved most of Pininfarina's work since the early 1950's. They were consistent in bringing great looking cars to market.........most of the time. They were trend setters and defined Ferrari's looks for a generation. But like every design organization, Pininfarina was/is not one person designing cars for decades. They were teams made up of of talented designers. Coming and going. With great leadership, they made beautiful memorable cars. Ferrari made the decision that an in-house design organization made more sense. They acquired the services of Mr. Manzoni, and he assembled a top notch design team. I give Manzoni and his team kudos for the work they've done moving the Ferrari look and design language forward. History will be the ultimate judge, but I have all the confidence in Ferrari's in-house design team to keep the great cars coming.

Designing Ferraris is a very difficult assignment. You will never please everyone. From what I've seen so far, they have it under control. Is everything perfect? Of course not. Have you had a look at the mirrors on the 296? Can't hit a homerun every time.

Automotive Design is a difficult endeavor. If it were easy, anyone could do it. It's not, and they can't.

 

Perfectly put.

 

I much prefer the FF’s exterior lines to the Lusso’s, although the latter has a significantly more modern and functional interior imho. I love several of Mr. Manzoni’s designs, including the LaF, 812SF, and Pista. However, the recent design language used on the SF90, 296, and even 812C doesn’t appeal to me - particularly the rear ends. I also really dislike the GTS and think it was a lost opportunity to create something more sculptural. The SP1/2 is gorgeous. So it’s a mixed bag for me, especially recently.

 

There are lots of really boring/uninspiring mirror designs on Ferrari designs over the years. They couldn't redesign the 458 mirror over the past decade to save their lives. The mirrors on an F12 TDF or an 812 are practically borrowed from a 90s Toyota Camry. Mirrors are something that seem to be either given to the newer industrial designers to detail or are philosophically something they prioritize functional size over design aesthetic.

 

first time we agree on somthing let's say good bye to this bad deginger, he ruined ferrari

 

the Roma is a huge fail in sales numbers, huge fail

 

He is very complimentary about the design. Then ‘corrects’ the things he doesn’t like. Ask yourself this question though; is his version better? I doubt very much his version sells more or is better received.

 

Can you share the data that's backs up this statement? Data available with a quick Google search so far for Europe, for example, was showing ~88 Romas per month on average for the first 5 months of CY21. Last quarter's statement put units sold at just over 1000 units in Europe. With the pretty rough data out there, that puts Roma sales at approximately 18-25% of Europe's CQ1 sales.

The Roma is obviously not going to have the mass appeal of an SUV, but at the sales figures so far, I'm interested in your perspective as to how it could be considered a "huge fail."