C8 Z06 | Page 8 | FerrariChat

C8 Z06

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by sainthoo, Jun 10, 2020.

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  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #176 boxerman, Jul 19, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
    I don't understand those here who have or want a C8 as daily thinking of a Z06 at all Surely the fast road c8 is going to be an e rey or zr1 or Zora. The z06 is supposed to be a different animal entirely, something track optmiZed and compromised for that optimization. Yet here we have people say I need the frunk, this or that comfort on the z06. Is not the purpose and reason for the z06 entirely different, why build in uncessary compromises in terms of its purpose, that being the most capable on track road legal c8, same purpose as a Gt3Rs. There are 2-4 other versions coming with more power and creature comforts which will be better suited and faster on road than a z06 much as a porche turbo is faster than a Gt3.. I don't get it, is a z06 supposed to be a bragging thing, like I have the "RACE" version, or is it just that its the first faster one after the regular c8 and therefore a step up?.

    To me, specialy given that the zr1, e-rey and zora are coming the z06 is free to be as stripped down as possible, if eliminating the frunk serves a track purpose and theres budget to do that, it should not even be a question. A frunk is not the target audience of this version. Same with doing a centre exhuast and losing the 2 golf bag capacity, thats not what this version is for. If its a flat plane motor its going to need revs to make power, low down tq may even feel less than a stock vette, most road car drivers will be dissapoimted in the "power" then.

    Take it as far as it can reasonably go, S duct if it serves a purpose, same with centre exuast, ditch the idea of electric heated or cooled seats, CF bucket shells will probably save 100lbs right there.
    A steel rotor option cause no one tracks with ceramics. Spool Shocks like the old z28 had, mag ride is a compromise for track. BTW if you have really good shocks,(the 5-10K type) ride is still good becasue they allow good compliance reasonable.

    Loose a few hundred pounds and have real aero options. For example a street legal swan neck wing thats already mounted to the frame(not bodywork) allows the owner to add a bigger wing for track easily.

    Fast on track is not hard to figure out, its weight(only so much can be done here without spending mega $), gearing in harmony with power and the riogth typoe of power(looks like they have this, springs shocks that work on track and are decently tolerable on street, and real aero. Not an irrelevant aero number at top speed but real aero that provides real significant downforce at 100mph and aero stability everywhere.

    With all the other versions for all tastes, there is no reason a z06 should not be like this, thats its purpose. Road guys are going to have a 600+hp e rey a 800hp zr1 and a +1000 hp Zora with all the GT comforts of a stock c8.

    If they could make the effort on the previous gen z28 and as theyre apparently doing the right motor, no reason they shouldnt do it right here(within reason), esp as they have multiple other more road suited variants coming.
     
  2. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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  3. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3

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  4. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Only issue is that at $130-150k (depending on options) the Z06 is going to sell out super quickly and be TOUGH to get.
     
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  5. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    The good thing is vette production is a selling units buisness plan, not artifiialy limited one. Two or three years from now one will be able to order and buy, plus the product will have been improved andr honed. Add to that all the people who will move on from the z06 to the faster zr1 or zora and there will be a fair number of low mileage used ones. Thats always the vette cycle, the c8 is more popular and in demmand now for sure, but eventualy markets get filled. Current production levels seem to be reaching towards 50k units per year, 2-3 years from now thats 150-200k c8s, ordering new will be an option, unless the car is banned by the epa/dot.
     
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  6. Face76

    Face76 F1 World Champ
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    So it is a 2023 model?
     
  7. jimmyb

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  8. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    Yes. Reveal this fall. (Sept/Oct/Nov? o_O ) Deliveries a year later? o_O
    2021 Los Angeles Auto Show, Nov. 19-28 ? Hopefully sooner.

    I wonder if we'll see any other models (like E-Ray) before Z06 delivery. Hopefully we'll see E-Ray reveal next summer. :)
    If Z06 is truly 'track oriented', there would be no real overlap interest with faster but heavier E-Ray 'GT' model.

    .
     
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  9. jimmyb

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    Bowling Green Assembly (where all Corvettes are built) has a capacity of 35,000 cars per year, running 2 shifts.
     
  10. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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  11. darkkaangel

    darkkaangel Formula 3
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    I own a C8 (built March 5, 2020, early production) and I am on my dealers list for the Z06 and I want it as I believe it will be the last naturally aspirated Corvette to ever be built and will be a keeper.
    I go to the track so it will get used properly but that does not mean I wont be driving it around daily as well, because I will :)
    Compromises are in the eye of the beholder as far I am concerned.
     
  12. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
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    Apparently debuting this fall with a 2022-2023 launch.
     
  13. jimmyb

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    One point to make. There is a statement, attributed to Tadge Juechter, that the C8 Z06 would "return to it's roots" (light weight, etc...). Like many fantasies on the internet, this was made up by someone on a forum, it circled the globe about a million times, and became "fact".
    Tadge NEVER said that so I hope the "light weight" brigade is not disappointed should the car NOT be light weight.
     
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  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Considering a base vette is 3600-3700lbs wet. A quad cam motor weights more than a sbc. Bigger wheels tires brakes etc weigh more. Then if the use light bits, more Cf, light seats etc, how low realisticaly can they get weight, 3500lbs? If it got as low as 3300lbs that sounds like a miracle.
    Its always going to be too heavy, the question is a bit too heavy, or really heavy.
     
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  15. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula 3

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    ^^^
    I can't imagine they could get the C8 Z06 to 3,300 pounds. If they can have it gain no weight over the Stingray, that would be a trick, IMO.
     
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  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #191 boxerman, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    Youre probably right. the C8 platform fatal flaw in terms of a street legal track car(as opposed to c8R) is its too damm heavy.
    The motor will sound great, and Im sure it will click off a few really fast laps beofre the 3600lbs starts to work against it, and like the c7 z06 for most that will be fine. I was hoping for something a little more serious. Lets see. Gt3 is what 3150lbs and Cayman Rs will prob go under 3000lbs.

    Weight is really significant in terms of all day track durability, not to mentions consumables like rotors pads and tires. Its one thing to spend 5-7k per day to run a Maclaren on track, and why even so few people of means do. But its the vette is really that heavy tires and pads are a one day last or less, and rotors a few so its going to come to 3.5-4k per day when its all is said and done. At that weight yeah might as well make it a great sounding but comfy street car, cause at 3600lbs other than a few fastish fun laps that dog don't hunt.

    Hard to dance at two weddings with one pair of shoes.

    If its really that heavy then the choices for out the box run all day on track are, corvette at 3-4k per day, tires and pads, plus reserve for rotors, Gt3 at 2-2.5k per day, Gt4 at 1.5-2k per day and lotus emira at Im guessing around 1k per day,(maybe the 4cyl version will come in around 3000lbs and the amg motor is already easily mapped to 485). Down the food chain theres a Miata at about $500 per day.

    There is a big price to be paid for the extra 600lbs especialy as speeds go up. Whether your car coasts 50K or 300K tires price by size does not alter, nor do pads. Anyone seriously running a porche on track has converted to steel rotors so that would be equal cost amongst the cars too. Weight+ speed will detirimine tire + pad wear. Im assuming all new cars will not need much more than fluids every 3-4 days. Depreciation is a hrd to measure, cause tracked Gt3 is goign to depreciate too. A crash on track that wipes out the car is going to cost less in a vette or Gt4 than a Gt3.

    For someone like me who would do 30+% of the miles on track, at 3600lbs the weight of the vette tilts the equation too far against it. My elsie before I got a dedicated track car was 50% track miles.

    Lets see what they do, Im prepared to believe the vette team may just surprise us if given a free reign. 3-500lbs is doable if the car is focussed and sacrifices are made.
     
  17. Jo Sta7

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    Have you taken the C8 to a track? I have the even heavier convertible version and I was able to do over 70 laps (split into 4 sessions) at Summit Point in 95 degree weather (track temp 130+) no problem at all. At the end of the day I drove all the way back to Pittsburgh (over 200 miles) on the same tires. Not an issue. Each sessions lasted 30+ minutes and at that I was covering nearly 40 miles of flat out driving per sessions. It wasn't until the last 5 laps or so that the tires got pretty gummy and overheated. I had Michelin PS4S tires on the car. Sport Cup 2's would have held up great, I reckon.

    I could feel the weight, it's not a "darty" car. But it is wonderfully balanced and I was damn impressed by it's ability to deliver good times and get me to and from in comfort and ease.
     
  18. darkkaangel

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    Yep, that's been my experience as well.
    Some people like to focus on weight too much versus how the C8 actually handles and performs on track which is pretty damned good and I think the Z06 is going to be even better in many ways.
    I don't hear anyone complaining about the new Ferrari SF90 Stradales weight, even in its lightweight Assetto Fiorano track setup with carbon-fiber wheels, titanium suspension springs, and more—weighs 3,839 pounds. Oh the horror ;)
    2021 Ferrari SF90 Stradale Assetto Fiorano First Test: 2.1 Seconds to 60 MPH! (motortrend.com)
     
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  19. bounty

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    This is the reason IMO.
     
  20. Jo Sta7

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    Right. Pick a metric, and obsess. Personally, rather than the weight what I hope they nail in the Z06 is the ride quality. The C8 is so damn good I hope the Z06 retains this and doesn’t become too firm.

    I already know it will deliver on the performance and sound front.
     
  21. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    All-New 2023 Corvette Z06: Performance Vehicle | Chevrolet

    oh boy here we go!! reveal this fall and they are definitely emphasizing the sound which is amazing in the clip. smart to market it as emotional and subjective vs lap times etc like they did with zr1. could be epic. if lambo goes turbo, this could be best sounding production car in world.
     
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  22. Dragster

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    Sounds pretty good in the clip. I've heard the Stingray is too quiet inside so lets hope this isn't an issue here.
     
  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  24. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Have not driven one on track, but have driven on track when others are driving them, so have a good idea of their relative pace and ease of speed. Its a good car for sure, not necesaarily a track car yet, but aquits itself very well for what it is, a big heavy me gt. I also thought the c7 grandsport was pretty good on track, seemed to have the same laptimes as c6 z06s, slower down straight but quicker through bends. The day IU was testing a ferrari 599 on track I wished I was in a c7 Gs instead.

    However good that chassis/suspesion on a C8 is, and thyere good, the laws of physics still apply and weight is weight, driven really hard it will eat tires pads and rotors, those are the most expensive consumables on track, and at 10/10ths the first things to go off causing the driver to back off full pace to maintain any pace.

    Every car in every race series tries to get down to the minimal allowed weight for its class for a reason, regardless of hp. When something heavy is going fast in a straight line there a lot of inetria there that wants to keep going in straight, the fatser you change that inertia the more heat generated into tires and brakes.
    Every car driven hard on track will heat its tires, by lap 2 or 3 theyre probably at optimum temp, past that optimum after enough laps grip starts to fall off as can braking, thats true of every car drive full tilt, the only question is how soon grip starts to decline and importantly to what degre. Does grip decline rapidly(as with most street tires) or is there a very slow drop off, .thats all detirmied by weight and speed, pure physics.

    The workaoround is the car senses grip loss and dials back through nanies, or the driver feels it and maintaining something less than best pace staying within the parameters of the consumables. Well there is one worse situation, where the tires get overheated and greasy, then youre all over the place and might as well go in. In a lighter car the drop off comes later and is far more gradual at the same speeds as the heavier car, therby maintiang optimal pace far longer, plus the consumables in lasting much longer lead to less cost for more speed..

    I'm sure a convertible C8 driven smoothly and fast a quick pace could hold up all day, as could the tires, the same could be said of many cars at quick pace. That quick pace is probably a lot faster than the best cars could manage at full pace years ago.
    By your description of the fun day you had on track were talking different scale., not so much accleration, but late deep into the corner max braking, trail braking all while braking as little as possible in as short a time as possible to keep momentum into the apex balancing the forces so all 4 tires are workign tot he max equaly generating lots of lateral Gs along the way, most street cars are not up to that past 3 laps and z51 C8s are not.

    The holy grail is a car tolerable and fun enough on street, yet stiff enough to really hold it together on track off curbs etc, not wallow at the limit or overheat the shocks, , one with meaningful aero at 70-120 mph bends(not just a top speed downforce stat), one whose brakes hold up(ie not a ferrari then) to extreme heat so you can use consistent full braking lap after lap, and light enough so it does not consume pads or rotors at an alarming rate, a car that wont overheat its tires so you have to singinficatly back off pace every few laps all with a that motor keeps on song. As for twitch stable turn in etc, if the prieces are thats all a function of alignment and different drivers prefer different things, except no one likes understeer at the limit , which currently is a c8 hallmark (unless its lsigned in such a way that does not work on street.).

    I have no doubt the vette Na quad cam motor will make power reliably all day long, might even be the ebst mtoor you can buy in the next few years. I have no doubt that handling can be dialed in any number of ways with alignment, they spent the $ on the good pieces underneath. Possibly with the weight on hand the brakes are so big that if you dont mind pad/rotor wear cost, the brakeswill hold up to a reasonable degree especialy if you have the right fluid pads and braided lines(does the c8 come with braided lines, C6 z06's didnt and melted their lines on track). As an aside there is no car I know of that will maintain brakes at full tilt on track running stock brake fluids, and pure street pads are dicey.

    In any event tires are rubber which can only handle so much friction and heat, 3600lbs is what it is. I guess if one was going to swap pads and rubber once or twice per day and rotor wear wasnt a concern then maybe a 3600lbs car could maintain full tilt for 10-15 laps multiple times per day, but that then defeats the object of a drive to the track car. alternatively drive at a lower pace or just back off every 2-3 laps for a few till consumables recover. If that is what ti is, im sure it will be an awesome road car, an avetador that works, and more fun on track than a stock C8, but thats not what I'm looking for. Fortunately something close to the above mentioned the holy grail can be bought at porche GT3 Gt4 or Lotus.

    I believe the vette team can do the job and baked the holy grail potential into the C8, well see if Gm lets them do it. But youre right its unlikely.
     
  25. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Different priorities,
     

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