The BORA | Page 43 | FerrariChat

The BORA

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wbaeumer, Aug 11, 2011.

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  1. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

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  2. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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  3. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Are you sure the changes took? I still see a reference to 205/70x15 in the front for later cars. As a prior owner of 16 Boras I have never seen smaller tires fitted in the front. Some Merak did have smaller tires in the front, perhaps this is the cause for the confusion.

    Ivan
     
  4. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Yes

    Dunlop say so in 1979

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    Then this is Michelin in 1978

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    And then there is this that i have stumbled accross. which i think complicates the whole matter by making it look like they are supposed to run them front and rear!

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    I'm not disputing that things weren't different in the US. I'd love to know more.

    However i bet they are nicer to drive with a 205 on the front.

    Is the steering heavy?

    do they tend towards understeer?
     
  5. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    You should check with Fabio Collina (the Maserati factory historian)

    [email protected]

    Ivan
     
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  6. ANF289

    ANF289 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2016
    31
    Doesn't the tire label you "stumbled across" suggest that your first bullet point ("The very first Maserati Bora cars came fitted with 215/70 WR 15 Michelin XWX until 1973.") is incorrect? That label is attached to the 18th Bora off the assembly line.
     
  7. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Good idea. I have done.
     
  8. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    aaaaaha ha ha!

    I love that. something pops up from nowhere that copntradicts everything i thought i had worked out. I think i'm going to end up with something like this:-

    some of the first Bora might have fitted 205/70R15. well at least one of them did any way.
    then i'm pretty sure that for a while at least they probably fitted 215/70R15.
    Then after a bit some of them might have had a smaller front tyre - maybe!
     
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  9. Longstone Tyres

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    Oo what a fab ecxperience.

    i emailed Maserati about correct tyres and over night i get this reply.

    Dear Dougal,

    you are welcome!

    After a check I can confirm you that the original homologated tyres assembled on the production lines at the time of the production for the Maserati Bora were the following:


    Bora 4.719cc

    1st e 2nd axels - 215/70 VR 15
    on 7,5" x 15" rims


    Bora 4.930cc

    1st axel - 205/70 VR 15
    2nd axel - 215/70 VR 15
    on 7,5" x 15" rims


    The alternative tyres later homologated for the Bora model were:


    Bora 4.719cc
    1st e 2nd axels - 205/70 VR 15
    on 7,5" x 15" rims

    Bora 4.930cc
    1st e 2nd axels - 215/70 VR 15
    on 7,5" x 15" rims


    I hope this can help!


    Very kind regards and have a nice day

    Fabio Collina


    NOTE: the film is really funny...!!!!


    I think that is great service from a company that really care about there heritage.

    I must say i also care about the heritage of Maserati my dream car recently sold at Bonhams at Goodwood. a late '20s Tippo 26 two seater GP car. Phwarr! it only went for a Million quid. sadly i was at a freinds birthday so i couldn't buy it.

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/26999/lot/211/

    that is the kind of car i would happily giv my left knacker for. My dad actually went out and bought a lottery ticket.
     
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  10. ANF289

    ANF289 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2016
    31
    Somewhat puzzling: Alternate tires later homologated for the 4.7 were 205/70's... but the tire label indicates 205/70 not 215/70 on the 18th car produced. What does "later homologated" mean?
     
  11. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Lot 17 is a car I know well.

    Once owned for a very long time by my best friend George Marin. He made a number of modifications to it but basically just maintained it very well. He had RBT refurbish the ZF and Install the Pantera 5th gear ratio so it cruises at very low rpms. It got a cosmetic restoration by a so called Bora specialist from the Santa Cruz area. But according to George when he saw at Monterey there were no significant mechanical restorations which is OK because it was a fine running car at the time.
    The car did look spectacular the last time I saw it but the lack of removal of the USA spec side markers I found weird though not a deal breaker. The distributor has been restored to European specs as has the valve timing. The seats are not the correct color, red. Nevertheless this probably a good buy because George knew these cars well and like me was one of the first to add one behind the driver's seat and enlarge the other behind the passenger seat inspection panels. This makes distributor, alternator, ac compressor and exhaust header maintenance easier than on most front engine cars.
     
  12. M. Brandon Motorcars

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    #1062 M. Brandon Motorcars, Jul 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
    @staatsof: Are you sure you're describing lot 17? The blue/blue car? #916?

    That's actually my car. The interior color on the car was originally blue, not red, according to Fabio at Maserati, so the interior color is correct. I have driven the car extensively, and I didn't note an extremely low cruising RPM in 5th gear. There are still the US side markers present, as can be seen in the photos (although, of course, Euro bumpers were installed). And, there is no access panel behind the driver's seat.

    Having said the above, I can say that #916 is really a great car. My friend bought the car in 2017 at the RM Scottsdale auction. It had been cosmetically restored sometime in the past, as well as having the engine rebuilt in the past as well. He addressed quite a few mechanical and cosmetic issues in his ownership period, and then I bought the car from him in 2019.

    It was soon apparent to me when I received the car that it wasn't running right. Long story short was that we had to rebuild the engine from the crank up--the previous rebuild was done poorly causing many issues. Almost $50K and a year later, I had a spectacular car, both cosmetically and mechanically.

    The good news was that the cosmetics were done properly in the previous restoration. Paint is excellent and seats were redone properly. No rust and looks great on the underside as well.

    But the best part is how it drives. It drives amazingly well--the engine is extremely strong, shifts smoothly, brakes work properly and strongly, no squeaks or rattles... it's just a great and solid car. Even the AC blows cold. All hydraulics work--the brakes, the lights, pedals, etc.

    In mid-2020, I sold the car to one of our storage customers who had seen the engine work and had fallen in love with the car. He drove it a few times and enjoyed it, but traded it to me earlier this year on another car. (he goes through cars like most of us change our clothes and has a very large collection)

    I decided that the right market for the car was Monterey, and Bonhams always does well with these Maseratis. The 77 Merak is also my car at the sale as well.

    Bottom line is, this is a Bora that is fully sorted, which I doubt can be said about many Boras out there (posters on this thread excluded, of course!). Most cars, as we all know, need a tremendous amount of work and aren't in great shape. You can jump in my car, drive it, and enjoy it, which is where its value is, not to mention the beautiful colors and presentation.
     
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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Yup my mistake I moved too fast and was on my phone. I saw the added overflow tank and mistook the color for black. I'm not at home for the next month + so I don't have my records to tell you which Bora I was speaking of.

    Sorry.

     
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  14. Longstone Tyres

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    Its good that isn't it.

    My guess is that German TUV is extremely difficult, However they do have Autobahns without speed limits so i guess stuff has to be right.

    My guess is that a later date after production they had to produce these later homologations to over come some different ruleings. Difficulties with cars that had different size tyres front and rear, then fail original homolgation, as if you have to fit the spare then you don't have the correct size etc. Possibly just a cover all homolgation to make things easier.
     
  15. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    1.
    1972 Maserati SOLD $214,043 USD
    Bora 4.7 EST. PRICE $225.61K-$282.01K USD


    EXTERIOR Rosso Fuoco
    RM SOTHEBY'S
    INTERIOR Black
    Lot 166 Guikas Collection
    ODOMETER 10400 km

    CHASSIS Nº AM117/288
    November 19, 2021 11:08AM (EST)

    2.
    1972 Maserati SOLD $291,172 USD
    Ghibli SS 4.9 EST. PRICE $253.81K-$310.21K USD


    EXTERIOR Bronze Metallic
    RM SOTHEBY'S
    INTERIOR Crema
    Lot 178 Guikas Collection
    ODOMETER 44159 km

    CHASSIS Nº AM115/49 2426
    November 19, 2021 11:46AM (EST)
     
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  16. johnei

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  17. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

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  18. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Froggie and boralogist like this.
  19. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    #1069 Nembo1777, Dec 1, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
    I met the people of the Anna Lisa collection at 500 Ferraris against cancer in September 2020, they bought a whole collection in one go IIRC. Thye invited me to visit as they are not that far from me but I did not have time. They had zero appreciation for the Bora and did not understand it. At least they have since had a proper text done on it in their site and it is now hopefully going to find the right owner.
     
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  20. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az22/arizona/lots/r0070-1978-maserati-bora-49/1199138

    Poor thing, never driven. Plastic covers still on the doors.

    Is RM really this stupid?

    • One of 250 specified with desirable 330-hp 4.9-liter engine
    • Coachwork by Giorgetto Giugiaro of Italdesign
    • Hydraulically controlled suspension, windows, seats, and pedal box
    • A remarkably well-preserved car; benefits from over $10,500 in service completed September 2021

    Introduced in 1971, the Bora was Maserati’s first rear-engined production car, a technological marvel wrapped in sleek coachwork by Italdesign’s Giorgetto Giugiaro. Its mighty V-8 engine—first displacing 4.7 liters and later enlarged to 4.9 liters—derived from Maserati’s Birdcage Tipo 63–65 race cars. It was paired with a ZF five-speed, manual transmission and fitted to a monocoque chassis employing four-wheel, independent suspension. A Citroën-supplied hydro-pneumatic control system powered the ventilated disc brakes, pop-up headlights, windows, and ingenious adjustment of the pedal box and driver’s seat.

    Performance was formidable, particularly for the 4.9-liter models, which gained 20 horsepower over the previous version. With 330 horsepower on tap, the Bora 4.9 could sprint to 60 mph in less than seven seconds, and Maserati claimed a top speed of 170 mph. The Bora was also perhaps the most practical supercar of its era, with a generous, front storage compartment and notable levels of sound and heat insulation. Maserati produced just 564 examples of the Bora from 1971 through 1980.

    Reportedly under current ownership since 2011, the U.S.-spec example offered here is one of only 250 with the more powerful 4.9-liter V-8. It was manufactured 27 July 1978 and left the factory finished in Rosso Fuoco over a black interior. While actual mileage is unknown, its odometer currently displays just 801 miles at time of cataloguing—a figure commensurate with its remarkably well-preserved condition. In fact, both its driver and passenger door cards are covered with protective plastic!

    In September 2021, the car a received lengthy list of maintenance and repairs including, but not limited to, engine belt replacement, oil and filter change, new fuel hoses and filter, and brake system service. Invoice copies for this work, carried out by Autosprint Limited of Chicago, Illinois at a cost of over $10,500, are on file.

    This Bora represents a rare opportunity for the discerning enthusiast to own a quintessential Italian exotic, one that remains a truly covetable alternative to a Ferrari or Lamborghini, replete with coachwork by a renowned designer and brimming with technological advancements.
     
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  21. Villard

    Villard Rookie

    Nov 19, 2013
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    Hi all,
    I guess, about the question related to the alloy used for Campagnolo wheels, that they were using Elektron alloy (Magnesium / Aluminum / other traces of different metals)
    Not weldable by the "classic" TIG process. seems to be lower % of Mg used than the original alloy.
    Some data about those Alloys : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektron_(alloy)
    I know a famous racing engine maker located close to Le Mans which has built a casting premise for engine parts : Few hundreds of fire starts during the first year of production (at the end of the 90's) : Magnesium alloy must be casted in neutral gas environment. Much more troubles during machining because of the high flammability of these alloys.
    The premise has been bought by Mecachrome, which used to be the maker / assembler of most of the F1 engines.
    the plant seems to have been converted to aircraft engine parts production, made in composites...

    Cheers,

    P
     
  22. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    well, chassis #035 was not that good with a more than chequered history...
    A perfect Tipo 26 comes today north of 3m€!
     
  23. am117au

    am117au Karting

    Apr 22, 2014
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    A quick question.
    This has probably been covered in the fourm earlier but what grade of oil are you using in your engine.
    from what I've been able to find Maserati recommend 10w - 40.My engine builder recommends 25w-50 what are your thoughts?
    Regards
     
  24. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    I use Castrol 20W-50. I believe different countries may have different grades. In the USA I have not seen 25W-50.

    Ivan
     
  25. Froggie

    Froggie Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2017
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    Ivan,
    On the Indy Manual (same engine than in the Bora), they recommend AGIP SINT 2000 (10W50).
    The garage where I have my Indy maintained indeed recommends this kind of more fluid synth oil (I thought that the mineral 20W50 was appropriate for engines of that period with loose tolerances, but they recommended sticking to the manual).
    Why do you use the 20W50?
    Serge
     

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