Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

@root are you selling your beautiful Maranello?!? I sure hope not, you’re going to miss that beauty!

Here’s the link to my Carrera: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1987-porsche-911-carrera-42/

Good luck on the Miata! Coincidentally I may also be soon passing my Miata (full blown race spec) to its next home and was also contemplating BaT.

Ruben

 

Anybody here end up with the Red/Black 575 that was for sale at Eurocar OC for like 6 hours before sublimating? Great spec with FHP, red stitching, buckets, and CF trim. Was asking $120K.

 

WOW that one really was spec'd out! and fully serviced. With those 20" wheels the amount of side-rubber is so skinny?!

https://ainventory.eurocaroc.com/vehicle-details/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello--fiorano-handling-package--coupe-014bae48397e0246be0ba8d36fab5c3c

 

The wheels definitely need to go, but at that price it's easy to look past the LOE required to remediate.

 

What’s are the parts worth? That’s the least it could sell for, no?


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Modulars are 14-16k
Seats never came up for sale but likely 5-10k
Carbon interior likely similar to a motivated buyer

 

I guess we don't know for sure if @henryr 's and @VOKS7780 's old car sold for $49k or not?

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147900987/

If that transaction actually happened that would give a semi recent indication of "salvage value".....that coparts first auction failed to close so not sure if the 2nd time around it did or not actually close?

 

Thanks for the link Ruben. Very nice presentation of your car. Probably worth having BaT do the photo shoot for the Maranello.

I know what you mean about selling the Maranello. That’s why I put the BaT listing on hold until further notice. Every time I drive it I come back wanting to keep it. Also promised Roselli first dibs on it as he expressed interest in adding it to his collection. Need to lighten up on cars. Never intended to be a collector but ended up with 8 cars anyway. Just sold the two e38s and the XK8. Next will be the MX5 which will leave me with 2 toys and 2 dailies. Still too much for me, so need to sell 1 toy. My heirs will need to deal with the other toy leaving the Ferrari on the chopping block. In process of putting it back to factory specs so the 575 modular replicas I bought from Chris and Fabios’s mufflers and H-Pipes will be offered for sale on this site after the sale.

 

Anyone know about the new listing on Marshall Goldman? No pictures or details yet.

 

No, but I do think it's worth reviving the original title discussion as the markets seem to be very different now!

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I thought this wld have done better:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-22/

 

I wasn't sure exactly what to think on this one pricewise....my gut told me higher.....

I REALLY liked the interior colors.

Over on the other historical thread "Maranaello's are dissappearing" a few guys made note.... @Roger_N @19633500GT @bracketz

I had commented during the auction with Dan @dhalperin13 that it would be cool if this one had smoked past $200k and then his soon to be EAG converted 575 could come quickly behind it to see what the market thought of a 575 conversion.

SOLD for $202,000 on 7/26/21
2003 575M 6MT ZFFBV55A330131986
+) 29,250 miles and last belt service was Sept 2017.
+) Grigio Titanio over Grigio-Carbone; two tone daytona style seats looked sharp -- also modulars and shields.
+) I hadn't realized perhaps there are as many as 116 manual 575's? NOT verified.
+) Maybe original clutch - not really investor miles but aren't all 575 6MT's investor car's regardless of miles?
+) Not sure if the 575 gives a clutch reading if its NOT an F1? @tazandjan or anyone else know?
+) Really desirable color combo
+) airbag leather needs addressing, no red fob, some stickies
+) 131986
+) I didn't see any other threads on this specific car
+) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-22/

Always interested in others thoughts. This one "ticked a lot of good boxes".

 

Maybe I am a bit of an outlier on this one, but I thought the price was on the high side of what I expected. I was figuring closer to $175-180k. I was surprised to see Merlin bidding it up - perhaps an indication that there is significant upside in the market.

The car is a lovely spec - I hope the new owner drives and enjoys!

 

"Maybe original clutch - "
****
Clutch wear probably not a issue at that milage; I replaced my clutch at 100,000 miles even though it was functioning fine and not slipping but was at max adjustment.

 

This was a bargain at this price but really was not the best example or presentation. No paint measurements, unusual interior color, lots of sticky surfaces, leather problems, numerous other issues that were not addressed, sparse service records, plus no PPI make is tough to get top dollar. I hope the new owner brings the car to a higher level and enjoys it.

 

It’s a “toughie” to put the value because there are so few.

For me the math on the delta between the 550 to 575 F1 is “easy” to understand… and in that arena, mileage is “important”…..but I guess the rarity on the 575 6MT and how much wealth allocation some guys have for cars can make prices get really big.

I hope Art at EAG can get a few vocal and happy 575 conversion clients as that route would seem to make a lot of sense if the conversion result is good.

If there wasn’t the “rarity” factor of factory 575 6MT then what should the “normal” 575 6MT to 550 delta be?….just the cost of cooling system and fuel system upgrades (if optioned equally)?

I really should read up more on what’s going on with the converted 430’s and the EAG satisfaction levels.

@SteveVT I agree with you that this was high IF the “factory rarity” card wasn’t in play.

Perhaps “like kind” 550’s will perpetually trade about $30-ish-k above F1-575’s and then perhaps converted 575’s trade $20-ish-k higher than similar 550’s and then the factory 575 6MT hangs out half the distance between SuperAmerica and Barchetta values?

A lot of fun “choose your own adventure” type questions and scenarios out there.

 

@vandevanterSH This comment during the auction was interesting.....


FMSSOCAL This author's likes: 194
@clyderomero…. actually that is an incorrect statement. Clutch wear on any of the F-1 Ferrari transmissions is far greater than the manual equivalent, simply because you cannot control the clutch..in reverse for example the clutch in the F1 never engages more that 50%, therefore you have a 50% slip rate. reverse it up a steep driveway once and ill see you on monday for a new clutch.
typical 575 clutches i replace are in the 12 to 15k mile range, manuals in the the 35-40k mileage range…

I do recall we have a handful of guys here that have done very well with their 575 F1 clutch wear.....WAY beyond the mileage comment above.

 

Completely incorrect and uninformed. Easily proven false by taking an F1 575M to a large parking lot (which I have done) and running it in reverse. Locks up just like first. Backing up a hill in a 575M is not a good idea for F1 or 3 pedal because reverse is geared so high, nearly as high as second. Nothing to do with F1 or 3 pedal, just gear ratios, which are identical since both use the same transaxle.

At 25,000 miles, my F1 clutch was 38% worn.

 

Thanks as always Terry for the additional commentary/insights. Is it reasonable to assume however the computer measures clutch wear that it is readable for a 575 6MT?

Of all the 575's sold on BaT lately if/when I have some time (for fun) I should see how many show a clutch reading and their mileage.

My gut told me several people here had commented about the F1 being very good on clutch life when shifted with the paddles and not just "left in auto".

I'll have to check my notes but I think @Montgomery Kersten has one of the most prolific mileage counts on an "owned since new 550" and from memory I thought he got a huge number of his miles on his clutch and I think he had commuted in the typically hilly San Francisco to Marin area.

 

No clutch wear readings on a 3 pedal Maranello, but any competent tech can look through the view port at the throw-out bearing pin and tell you how much your clutch is worn. Works for F1, too.

 

Given the relative rarity of 6MT 575Ms and the seller's market we're in, barely over $200K seemed pretty reasonable. The apparent cosmetic issues of the 575 today on BaT are typical for Maranellos (and most other Ferraris of this vintage) regardless of mileage, and are easily rectified. Not a big deal (tired of reading comments about stickies. So what! If you're fretting about spending a couple grand to fix that you shouldn't be buying a $200K Ferrari). Had some of these issues been addressed pre-auction by the seller, and had there been better documentation, paint thickness readings and clearer information on the state of key mechanical questions on the car, likely another $20K or more could been added to the result. End of the day (and the auction) the buyer is taking home an awesome, gorgeous front engine V-12 "gated" manual Ferrari, one of only 246 of its type in the world. Can't beat that!

 

Wow, all those calculations make my head hurt. What I know is; big block Plymouth Cudas are selling for $150k and a 1997 Porsche Turbo S is offered by a NJ Porsche Dealer for $480k. There seems to be a lot of money out there with fewer and fewer places to invest it.


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Eric, as simultaneous owner of a 550 and a well specced gated 575 I can say that the latter is a much improved car over the 550. Better and more powerful engine, better interior, better handling, steering, better electronics (including things like traction control), ride, refinement. Lots of small elements that add up.

Better has a hazy relationship with value in Ferrari world though as we all know. My F512M is a worse car than either and worth a multiple of the 550, and a Daytona is a truck by any of their standards and worth much more. F1 base 599 better than my gated FHP 575 on almost all those criteria and I could buy three of them for the price of the 575. No logic here, but worth mentioning anyway, gated 575 with good spec is a notably better drive than 550.

Anyone who hasn't should probably read this historic article on driving the 275, Daytona, 550, gated 575 and 599 together

https://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/599/14111/ferrari-599-gtb-vs-275-gtb-daytona-550-maranello-and-575m

And for those who don't read the article, here's my key sentence, I concur

"Pull the door shut and the 575M is clearly a more modern Ferrari (than the 550): dead ahead is a big central rev-counter, smaller speedo to its right. The steering wheel is smaller, more sculpted; the big shoebox console is gone. But the real change is the sheer reach of the revised 5.7-litre engine, now producing 508bhp and nudging the top speed up to 202mph, and the added polish to the chassis. I’d have scarcely believed it, but the 575M Fiorano monsters the 550. There’s more steering feel, greater traction, even a better ultimate balance."

 

@Themaven Your comment is a perfect example why this "forum/environment" is amazing. -- thank you.

I don't believe I'd argue with anything you note.

For me I like the "analog-ness" of the 550 (its weird how the digital odometer and gas meter/gauge turn me off in the 575). I do like the concept of the center tach and I'm really in love with the set up that @tazandjan has. For me the list of unicorn 550's and even "Alicorn" 550's was fun finding and was mostly comprised of hunting down all those examples that had a full spectrum of MSW evolutionary improvements to take the 550 to the 575 level. The work that Dave @ferraridriver and Jon @Cribbj have done with a handful of the "highly evolved 550's" is really super cool.

 

Re: the BaT car. Strong price in my mind. 30K mile car with questionable service history/needs and an interior that’s an acquired taste - does $200K site-unseen. I’d think the gated unicorns would be $300K+.

Merlin just listed a nice 27K mile car for quite an ambitious price…