boxer market?

Heres the another part of the spectrum. From the description its pretty obvious with the dings it would need paint. Some suspension work was done, ie bushings but not a full suspesion redo and you know thats coming. And thats all the good parts. Under the rear clam, what do those plenums tell you, thats this car is a mess and been messed with for years, plus its far from orginal.
So for 165 K you could buy a boxer that will need 150-200k to be a great boxer, in other words its not really worth more than 100k and a bad buy at 165k unless youre doing the work yourself so labor is free and see it as a good starting point with lowish entry costs. Maybe just maybe you roll the dice and it runs well, so you got a cheap BB ride, but its price is really the purchase plus reto cost.

Beeetr to buy the white car above for a lot more money, thats actulay worth the going rate


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1984-ferrari-512-bbi-3/

 

I didn't make the chart of the price trend, fact are facts of what selling prices are. Anyone that quotes BAT prices for making a market is a Italian car salesman huckster, something you would expect from Sackey, like i said too many shills there its too easy just read the hype in comments when cars are listed.

My car wasn't a clapped out vehicle when I sold it, it was flipped multiple times and had a full service by Blackhorse thats all it needed, yours may be clapped out now but mine wasn't.

The description said full restoration on Newmans car $70k restoration and it sold less than my car, end of 2016 the market was still going strong. Guess his work was substandard or not appreciated maybe the car just was slapped together to make a quick sale according to you why it brought a low price when you have offers of $350k for your clapped out Boxer all day long LOL.

I have watched the Boxer market ever since I sold mine for 7 years, they don't move at $250k after 2018 and just sit and these are clean cars with records, the bubble has burst a long time ago and thanks to the current Administration rampant out of control inflation, $160k now is $85k pre 2010. Boxer values are back to what there were calculating inflation and buying power with today's money.

 

Whatever ignore.

 

Too funny. You gotta be a Liberal when presented with facts that differ from what you want to hear you ban want to shut down the opinion, plus you project my Boxer must be clapped out when its in reality yours.

 

La ferrari's
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Not sure what Liberal, Conservative, Authoritarian or Libertarian has to do with BB prices, but keep P&R in P&R.

 

@mikeferrari2000
@boxerman

Gentlemen, I've read the thread and both your posts, and I'll try to mediate the disagreement.

I'm not an expert in Boxer prices, but I encourage you both to correct me from what I understand.
From what I see, the BB prices peaked (I think we all agree) about 5-6 years ago.

What I think causes an enormous gulf is condition, mileage, provenance. I'm sure you both agree one man's concours could be another's jalopy.

For the sake of argument, let's assume a Platinum award winner say at something at the level of a Car Week event.

It seems all parties are in agreement that the peak was around ~400K (again using the aforementioned condition)

I think we all also agree that prices have gone down to the 300s. (I use that figure since the recent cars I've seen were not nearly as nice as the ones I saw trade at 400 and above) - they have been selling in the last 6 months in the mid 200s range.

Not to discount @mikeferrari2000 - I'm sure you can find cars in the 150-250K range all day long with less than concours top-class conditions and/or high mileage.

 

I hope you don't make stock purchases from one analysts opinion. It's just a friggin website. If I pulled up a graph from haggerty would you take that as the end all.

Have you ever heard of off market sales, where many cars change hands and where I was trying to buy my Boxer back in 2013 and missed out on 3 cars.

 

I mean plausible these could be fraud shill bids?

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/pa20/paris/lots/r0014-1981-ferrari-512-bb/830780
https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1980-ferrari-512-bb-3980-67
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/pa19/paris/lots/r0011-1981-ferrari-512-bb/730589

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence as the saying goes…

 

Statistically, there are too few sales to allow for any predictions about the next BB sale. All sales are unique, as all cars are unique, and while sellers often believe in the virtue of their cars, BBs have a reputation as being complex and expensive to maintain. I bought the best one I could find, then spent the purchase price again in restoring the car to the level I wanted it at. To recoup my investment probably means it is sale proof. So what, it’s not for sale.

The best thing you can do to hold up BB values is to maintain and enjoy your cars. The more people who observe you, the more demand for cars such as yours will be.

 

Thats the point with BBs there is a vast range of condition which may not be apparent to the user who just wants a look and a car that can move under its own power. Any car can have shiney paint and look good from the curb, its whats underneath that counts..
A proper running boxer is another story.
For whatever reason a lot of BBi's that came into the USA did relatively low mileage, therefore its possible to find a sub 20K mile BBI with great orig paint and inetrior that runs. Thats a starting point, such a car wont need a full resto cause paint inetrior(cosmetis are all really good) and engine compression are all good, but it may still need a suspension refresh Injection refresh, fuel tanks cleaned, new fuel pumps, electronic ignition upgrade, radiator redone, brakes rebuilt and all hoses replaced to be running in top form. Add that to the cost of an EO and youre talking 50K on top of the 225-250k purchase price for a really nice car to start with. Possibly you can find a car with all this done already for 250-275k, but I havent seen one, and a dealer EO doesen't mean much.

A 160K 40-50k miles boxer thats drifted over time and needs everything from paint to etc, that car in the end needs 150-200k to be first class in which case were talking every bit of 350k by the time youre done. Yeah you could maybe if the valves are good synchors etc take a 165K boxer put 50K of mechanicals into it and have a good running car with tatty cosmetics, if youre lucky and theres nothing significant, a cheap boxer is a bad buy by any math. Theres no such thing as a cheap boxer, if you want to actualy be able to really drive one.

The best buy to use is probably a 30-40k miles BBI that someone has kept up or brought to full proper operating condition, suspensions been redone belts hoses brakes all the bits over say the past decade of use and enjoyment. If you can find such a car for 200-225k youre getting a boxer that runs great and has no major needs, thats whats called an excelent driver quality car.

Above is the BBi market,

512 BBs are different, in theyre older still, were not as well built in terms of paint, and were used much more so more will need doing. Yes you can get good driver quality 512BBs and enjoy them, thats a 275-300k car. Realisticaly most are coming to the stage where a full redo is apropriate, yet a 512 BB is not a 400k car even if redone to justfy the price.

Possibly a 365 has a value to justify a redo, if you bought it right years ago, but youre not going to find an inexpensive 365 these days.

Unless we think a Boxer will jump 50-100% in price in the next while these cars are not economic investments, at best if you buy the right car and the market drifts up youll keep parity with what youve spent over time and to buy, which is a good deal by any other measure.

Boxers are however the bargain of the century if you want the classic 12 cyl ferrari experience enjoy the looks and the experience of driving them, boxers tick practicaly every box of a great 12 cyl classic ferrari, and in the modern world theyre more useable and more fun than a daytona. Youve pretty much got to scale up to a 288 before youre exceeding the boxer experience, and a newmanized boxer may be a match for that.

Trs are similar, you can buy a cheap 100k Tr that runs, youll be putting 30-50k into it to make it run great and there will still be cosmetics to varying degrees.. Or you can buy a great Tr for 130-150K spend 20k to fully sort and wit will still be worth only the purchase price.. In the case of the Tr because there were so many made, and in USA ferraris are more for posing than driving, its still easy to find a cosmeticaly prefect one with relatively minor needs.

Seems like older carss get to a point where the population shrinks because thay all start to need resto redo, and then the resto redo cars start to sell for the value of the car plus resto, that prbobaly explains Dino prices, they've either been restored or theyre rusty and dead, want one, pay the price, plus theyre easy to drive.

Yeah we talk up boxer virtues, classic magaizines should test restored BBs and newmanized BBI's, and we should put to bed the 5 year EO story, its nonsense. Belts break before 10 years because the car wither sat for 5 years, or most likely the tensioner bearings were bad, not least because they dont do those at a simple eo and after 30 years they need doing.

if a boxer could get to 400k it will get to 500k again.

 

In 2019 there was no such thing as a $160k Boxer in any condition except for the one that was burnt to a crisp.

The least expensive one I knew of was the $195k (firm price) BBI that Gullwing had that they admitted needed major work. On the other end of the BBI spectrum was a car that had just completed major work for $285k.

There were 2-3 in the $230-$250k area that would have needed $30k+ of immediate work to be a decent to good driver.....and I wasn’t willing to spend that.

 

Thats actual buyer experience.

 

@mikeferrari2000 banned for duplicate account (previously banned user)

 

Of course he was banned. He has an ax to grind or feels he alone can set the market back to early 2014.

I guess he wants another car, but has only $150K to spend.

 

He was making dumb comments in relation to the Diablo market as well, so these markets are safe until MikeFerrari2001 starts posting

 

Yeah, he seems to have sour grapes, doesn't he? When he said no Boxer sold for $250K or more in the last three years - hmm...unless some conspiracy - that pretty much showed his hand, and it wasn't a winning one.

 

Yep, and he didn’t take Kenny Roger’s advice on knowing
when to fold ‘em

Or when to walk away for that matter......

 

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That dude also roasted a great bird back in the 90s

 

Well, I can confidently say that a fully restored, Cavallino platinum winning BBi sold for substantially more than $250k just this year. So if you need a data point, there's that.

 

Oh man, that Chicken be soooo good!

I have not seen any around? Did KFC/Popeye's get a Royal Flush on the old papa?

 

I'm sure he would say fraud/shill bid. I never understood bears that have no skin in the game. Must be a special place of misery.

 

Whould you give us details on the car and what type of price