boxer market?

" This menacing 512 BB is presented today wearing several period improvements which include a stunning set of color-matched wheels, equalizer with CB radio system, and woodgrain sports steering wheel."

But it already has a CB Radio! No need to add one, that's one less expense.

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It is often difficult to find a donor car and add up all of the receipts and at least break even at the end. Free labor? You could be doing something productive with your time.





A simple equation.

Cost of the donor car
Restoration fees (include all fees into the total cost (including personal time devoted to the project).
______________
Compare total cost of the project with the market rate for a restored car.
*BBi donor car + 300K = financially upside down.

 

Yep, thats my point. If you buy a 165K boxer as one poster suggested its really nothing more than a resto candidate, cost of resto is not going to be less than 200K, could even be more depending on whats missing etc. A 165K boxer may run but its effectively noting more than a rolling full resto candidate. After resto youre then going to be owning a near on 400K boxer and thats apparently now break evenish or slight loss.

A fully done or mint pristine kept boxer at 250-350k is therefore a far better buy. Even then it will most likely need 10-30K in sorting the little bits etc to run a+.

The only way any 165 k boxer makes sense is for someone with the skills to look at it as a low cost of entry and do the resto themslevs to end up with a superlative car. There are a number of owners here who have done just that.

250-350k buys a Mint or restored boxer that nuts on perfect. (mint to me means low kms orig paint interior all in good shape and crucialy mechanicaly running as it should.) there are any number of so called mint cars that maybe could win a concors but run like crap, so figure adding 20-50K to sort such a car. there are also any numbe of low mileage cars which on closer scruntiny need repaint or have lots of non org bits.
225-250K buys a higher mileage prefect running Boxer that is other wise driver quality cosmeticaly, ie a car that will provide years of great fun driving.
Below 200k if the car moves under its won power its still a car that basicaly needs everything. 200+k resto, or if you have the time and skills 100k in parts paint leather etc and your labor to end up with a mint resto 300k car.

When boxers hit 400-500k again, they'll make financial sense to restore.

However as many here will attest, the boxer experince is every bit the $1-3mill classic ferrari experince and a newmanized boxer is close on a 3 mill 288 experience, therefore any nuts on perfect boxer is worth the 300-400k entry if you prioritze the actual owning and driving. Weve seen a numbe rof psyters here have clearly spent the $ in that range to get there, and maybe at some point the larger market will clue in.

Imo what holds the boxer back is its very much a car you need to be able to drive to own, its not so much a Gt car as a real sportscar/supercar. Easier than a Miura or Ct but still of that ilk. Miuras were at under 100k for decades untill suddenly they became art in the 2k's. Ill be very few Miura owners really drive them.

latest auction results posted here indicate were getting close to that art point.

 

So move on them and hang out with your big collectors who "talked to you" lol

Frankly the reason this site works is its for actual enthusiasts who DRIVE, something the poseur crowd misses..

 

Wow Ill have to revise my estimates uypwards.

You state that many of these cars need considerable work to get sorted, in my experience thats true of most boxers we see. Theres such a vast difference between a nice looking boxer that runs and a properly running car with all the right bits and everything in between..

 

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My X. At the time of purchase it was a one owner California car that was brokered, by FoSF. Kewl back story. Two other owners later picked up the car. The son of the late original owner now has the car in his garage. He spent considerable effort to track down his father’s car. This is a recent photo.

 

Yes, that’s true. A 512 BBI in the $250k range today is not going to be a perfect car. In my opinion, a well done, fully restored BBI today is north of $300k and probably closer to $350k for an interesting color combo.

 

my strong suspicion is that you are a troll.

be gone.

 

I wonder what mr Sheehan would think of that philosophy.

 

This video explains it well.

 

Breaker, Breaker 19..c'mon back. Now put the hammer down good buddy.

 

IMHO the king of the flat 12 series Ferrari is the 512TR. That car is pure joy. The perfect mix of electronic port injection, with an old school look on a chassis that is modern. Even the interior is competitive with the later stuff. It's pretty much the perfect old school exotic to own.

 

i cannot agree more.
its perfect.
it remains my favorite car.

 

I have a TR and a BB and have spent time in a friend's 512TR. I suspect if I could only have one flat 12, the 512 TR might be it. Easy to drive and fast, with better handling, brakes and top end power than my TR.

 

I also have a TR and a BB, both koenig, also have driven the 512TR and 512M but I always prefer the BB for handling and the competition for going very fast. sure, the BB has not the original brakes, also the competiton not has them. original I would also prefer the 512TR

 

Wow!
I haven't been on F-Chat for quite a while and just opened it up to see if anything was cooking in Boxer-land. There's more Boxer talk in this single thread over the last month than there probably has been in the past decade, which I think is great.

My Boxer is in for an engine-out service, suspension bushing refresh, and some general tidying up. While doing the belts and valves we discovered that six of the pistons were wrong, specifically the valve recesses, so we went in deeper. New pistons, stainless valves, plus a Newman diff carrier. The pistons took quite a while (COVID delays) but it's finally going back together now. I can't wait to get it back!

Regarding values: Yep they fluctuate, but I don't care. I bought mine in 2013 for $115 and didn't even consider selling it during the 2014-16 peak. I enjoy it too much and drive the hell out of it.
I've also owned a Miura and a Dino which were discussed here, and while they are some of the most beautiful streetcars ever made, they both have driveability issues for me. The Miura: Brakes, reliability, and I really don't fit at 6'3". The Dino: 190 hp just doesn't cut it for me. I've also driven TR's and as many here have said, they're certainly interesting, but they're a little too portly for me, but of the three varieties, it would be the 512TR.

I like cars that are beautiful, functional, and thrilling to drive. When all three intersect, that's a very special car. The BB checks all those boxes for me, which is why mine is staying put. I also have an '06 Ford GT which I bought new. They were discussed here as kind of similar to a BB. I concur, it also checks all those boxes and isn't going anywhere either, regardless of where prices go. Both are mid-engine, normally aspirated, high power, manual, no-nannies, and thrilling to drive.

So yeah, in my opinion the BB is indeed a very special and rare car.

 

I thought the Ford GT had a supercharger.

 

It does.

 

So ironically, my final choice recently came down to a Boxer and a ‘05 FGT. And I bought the FGT, as it was a better fit for what I was looking for. Agree with the driving characteristics, it is thrilling to drive and fun at every speed.

 

Oops. I got carried away.

 

Superchargers certainly behave more like NA engines than turbos do, low end torque, no lag, less rpm management, no sound restriction. Ok, maybe they behave more like NA engines on steroids. They just lack the efficiency of a well designed turbo system.

 

https://worldwideauctioneers.com/auburn-2021/

 

Looks like a lot more than 5000 miles

 

Yeah and they could have vacuumed it and put the correct steering wheel on it for an 84, if it is an 84.

 

Love to see photos.