Hamilton deserves more respect

That was but one thing in a vast sea of other things, most of which we cannot speak freely on.

Incidentally Ali was called a fraud, arrogant, ungrateful, a hypocrite, a narcissist etc.

 

Thanks. It's before my time, so I always assumed it was because of draft dodging.

 

It's just the usual double standards, cherry picking, and portraying every action the most cynical way possible - repackaged.

Never mind he slashed his car collection and sold his private jet - lets focus on the purple Zonda that he keeps as a toy to buzz around Monaco and rev the car in tunnels because he admittedly has always loved V12s. It cannot simply be he is indeed genuine and committed publicly and privately, but still retains some guilty pleasures and likes a bit of flash. No... he must be a capital "H" "Hypocrite!!!

I don't think it's a newsflash to say everyone has beliefs, passions and joys that are sometimes if direct conflict with one another, even if most of us do a good job rationalizing. Never mind if you suddenly find huge sums of money at your disposal. I've never heard Lewis claim 100% personal purity....

About that street/hood stuff - that's all just vaguely (or overtly offensive) nonsense. Liking Hip-Hop and urban fashion has nothing to do with = "gangsta" or violence. I haven't seen Lewis glorify either. And we can argue whether Stevange is a slum or not or just how much of slum it is....but the fact remains that living in public housing is not particularly typical of his modern day professional racer contemporaries, full stop.

I always amused by someone seeking out so many details of the lifestyle of someone they despise. At least I have the excuse of actually liking him

Admit it - you know if Lewis took some pictures playing with bees at bee school or picking up some trash, you would be sure to say "he made sure the cameras were on"

 

The cameras are always on, and yet we never seem to see those things. Why not?

On my end, I don't know or care much about his private life. Mainly, to me he's just another overrated driver and any decent driver in his car would have had the same outcomes. Nico (and to a lesser extent George) proved exactly that to the world. Honestly, it'd be less objectionable if he weren't constantly on the radio berating the very team that built that car and engineered his success. His behavior during race weekends makes them less enjoyable to me.

Anyone who thinks he should get more respect than he already gets should have no trouble articulating why and making a convincing case without getting so frustrated that they resort to personal attacks. Yet, here we are...

 

You just proved my point. It's the car and the team. He can barely keep ahead of his #2 teammates, who also have no trouble winning in that car.

 

Of course. F1 is a team sport. Most of the drivers understand this well and treat their teams with a great deal of respect. They measure their performance relative to their teammate first, the rest of the field second.

One driver conspicuously does not treat his team with respect, and this same driver has a nasty habit of being beaten by his teammates over the course of a season. His teammate is now completely and openly neutered to (hopefully) prevent that happening again, but the car is so good that it doesn't matter to the team's result in WCC. This driver deserves quite a bit less respect than gets shoveled his way during every broadcast and in silly threads like these.

 

Given the amount of hypocrisy we've been exposed to by Lewis, yes I'd absolutely say he'd be sure the cameras where on.

I also don't really point out his hypocrisy for being supposedly all about the planet whilst racing in F1. It's these guys' job to do that.

However I do see the hypocrisy in the EV series he (and fellow EV hypocrite Nico Rosberg) are involved in, transporting offroad cars all around the world, tearing up untouched green areas in order to bring attention to climate change is hilarious. It's like Team America (the movie).

Lewis gets talked about a lot, especially in the past 7 years also because he's winning everything. Inevitably he gets talked about a lot more, positive and negative, and people will clash with their opinions. Lewis leads a very public life so inevitably, he gets discussed even more because of that as well. When people see a lot of hypocrisy, it gets pointed out swiftly.

There are few people out there saying that Lewis is a bad driver. People rooting for Lewis take when it's said that "it's the car" that it means we think he's a bad driver. Far from it. For some reason there are a lot of people that feel the need that it needs to be pointed out that Lewis is the Greatest or else you're a hater.And not only that, but it needs to be said often. A bizarre take if you ask me.

The same people that are now saying that Lewis is the greatest, many of those where saying, back when Vettel was winning everything, that it was "only because of the car" that Vettel won.

I'm not saying that you specifically are one of those people, but due to the loud voice that the pro-Lewis camp has (and it goes FAR beyond this website), Lewis supporters tend to get rolled into one by those that do not support Lewis. So both sides do have "bad takes" from their opposites, making general assumptions, thus the clashes get worse.


I for one DO think that Lewis is a great driver. I also believe there are better drivers in the current championship (namely Max and Leclerc, and Norris has truly come alive this year and I would imagine he would make Lewis' life truly hell if they where in the same car). I also believe he's had it pretty damn easy with most of his championships. That's partially down to him, partially down to his car, partially down to Rosberg stepping down early.

Statistically speaking Lewis is now the guy with the most wins, most poles and so on. But statistics are skewed, especially in a sport like Formula 1 where the car/team plays such a large part. The statistics are also further skewed because a quick look at Lewis vs Michael, doesn't paint a very accurate picture. Yes, they both have 7 titles, yes they both had dominant cars...and the average fan would say ''but Lewis has more wins therefore he's better" (and that's a take we see a LOT). One forgets that Lewis' has spend a lot more races in ultra dominant cars vs Michael. Also in regards to poles, Michael's statistics have been greatly affected by various qualifying regulations that didn't necessarily mean the fastest car was on pole position.

The pro-Lewis side tend to be newer fans and haven't experienced the older regulations well, and when they're on the losing side it's far easier for them to say ''you're just a hater'' instead of forming a compelling argument.

 

I never accused you of being a hater, I was responding to the Baz post (and you're agreement with it - which was disappointing! )

That "million" pound house you mention - he moved there when he was 11-12 which I think was put together as part of his Merc deal. He lived in a council house previously. Poor is relative term - exactly how poor does he need to be, and why does it bother you? That is extra -ordinary when you look at the rest of the F1 grid and the whole ladder system. He does play it up - he's proud of it and his and his Dad's hard work...but I think he has a keen awareness that his circumstances were a bit exceptional. Everyone loves the rags to riches story...but people do get a bit touchy when the person in question kinda realizes they're a bit of an exception and begins to deviate from the 100% party line 100% - namely "see this proves, if you work hard enough (in Britain, in USA, anyone etc.) that anything is possible for everyone, yay!"

I really don't understand your point thing about urban/hood thing. I don't see this as an invented reality that he suddenly cultivated at all. I think he was always this kid and had these interests - but he knew (correctly) had to play the corporate clean game, particularly as a McLaren driver - at l least until he had the independence and clout to break out of it. Incidentally I would say most modern racing drivers at the highest levels are not the most well rounded, well adjusted lot. They live weird, hyper focused lives from early childhood and are surrounded by all manner of dubious and inscrutable people and influences. Most project an air of "maturity beyond age" that commentators love to go on about, but I think for many it's absolutely false front, and many remain deeply insecure and juvenile in many respects and remain kinda dull and one dimensional. Lewis has had to find his feet over the years, but I personally have found him endearing and interesting throughout - a nice blend of no compromise racer, heart on sleave passion, and wide-eyed boyish enthusiasm.

Image conscious? For sure. Phony/Disengenious? No way...

The hair thing is just dumb really - has he ever denied getting hair implants?

Incidentally - you're younger than me? how do you know? I would have assumed otherwise.

 

I am one of those people! I had zero doubt that Lewis was the best driver on the grid when Vettel was winning everything in the Adrian Newey Redbulls - and I was proven to be right!

 

I don't which person this is. It doesn't sound like anyone on the current grid to be honest.

 

Certainly a topic for P&R[/QUOTE]

My favorite Hamilton years are 2006/2007/2008 by far.( yes GP2 too)
Silverstone 2008 was a masterclass race.

 

That and other aspects of his story, but that becomes a P & R conversation.

 

Ali wasn't concerned about his "brand" in the least during those years. While he had his flaws (as any of us do), he did stand on principle in the more difficult social conversations. He was willing to go to jail for his beliefs.

Later on, he became more marketable though because of this.

 

Exactly, but he spoke like he meant it and actually put his money where his mouth was.

 

I am glad you clarified that !

That's counts me out the, since I must be one of the oldest F1 followers on this forum ...

 

IQ doesn't always indicate intelligence. He was a pretty sharp guy

 

Hamilton must have an IQ of about 10.

Earlier he posted a picture on Instagram of him and his Bulldog Roscoe chilling but accidentally tagged George Russell as Roscoe before swiftly deleting it.

I can imagine Lewis obsessively looking in to Russell's life story with resentment, cracks me up imagining him doing so.

 

You’ve lost the plot.