The C8 Z06 Corvette sounds more Ferrari than Ferrari

There has been grey imports for as long as they have been sold in the US. That goes for both Europe and the UK. I think the review from Carwow is a year old or so.

Corvette import in Europe is an odd thing. So far they have been sold via Germany and some other place in the UK, but it is not via official dealers so to speak. Last I heard there was,a total of 700 Corvettes imported to Europe in 2020 and some of those were C8's. Now it's 2021 and more have gotten them.

You are correct about October, but that pertains to the sale of Corvettes from actual European GM/Chevy dealers.

As for price, a C8 in Germany is 99990 Euro, so about 110000 usd. That's without the Z51 pack.

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Thanks for the insight. Those prices are astronomical for a vette! I can’t imagine there would be much of a market at those prices, even here.

 

It's not even the final price. Add registration tax and extras and it cost the same as a 992 GTS.

The Z06 will cost more than a Turbo and GT3. Possibly as much as,a GT3RS or Turbo S. For us it is a completely pointless car.

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Full disclosure, I’ve owned 4 Fcars with the last an 812SF and I can say the C8 will not have the level of sticky buttons, battery issues, and paint inconsistencies that I have experienced with the Ferraris. It still frosts me to no end that Ferrari ignores these issues.

 

You don't know how right you are. More than inspiration, but rather imitation, which as we all know is the sincerest form of flattery:


"While numerous test-drive reviews and ‘Of the Year’ trophies mark that mission accomplished, there are lessons behind the hoopla: how GM engineers solved problems they encountered reinventing America’s sports car. “Porsche was our primary benchmark, especially in reference to their PDK dual-clutch automatic transmission’s overall dynamics,” revealed executive chief engineer Tadge Juechter, in an interview with SAE’s Automotive Engineering. He said GM also purchased a Ferrari 458 for testing and tear-down analysis."

 

On the topic of sound, I'm not sure why everyone is getting all bent out of shape about these Z06 videos. It sounds nice out the gate!

That said, it's a N/A V8 with a flat plane crank and likely a higher redline and smaller displacement than the Stingray. That concept combined with the right firing order and exhaust manifold geometry is nearly idiot-proof in getting a good exhaust note. Tried and true recipe! This is demonstrated over the years on the F430 and 458 platforms where just about anyone with some cheap tubing, a TIG welder, and some time can offer a replacement to Ferrari's finely tuned OEM exhaust with their own garage fabricated exhaust 'design' that tickles the hearts of Ferrari fans out there. If you go out and search, your neighbor probably makes and sells a 458 exhaust... that's how ridiculously simple it is.

I've seen some comments that are worth echoing on this thread, and I will add a few of my own.

1. Post GPF/Production Sound: Test mules likely get a bit of leeway with emissions. It will be interesting to see if things generally sound the same as we start to see lesser camouflaged production examples
   
2. Almost, but not quite: While the new Z06 sound is leagues above previous generation Corvettes [to my ears], it still pales to the F430, 430 Scud, 458, and the 458 Speciale. Getting 90% of that magical sound, especially in this post 458 era, should literally just be about studying the generations before. But that last 10% is about making the right decisions in tuning and execution under the right leader with the right ear. It's clear the Chevy was aiming to attract new customers with so many aspects of this vehicle mimicking the 458; hell they've had nearly 11 years to study it. Perhaps they are even aiming at the customers that always dreamed of a flat plane crank V8, looking to get into a preowned 458 now, tempting them to step into a more modern car with an also impressive racing pedigree.
3. My 2 cents:
   1. NA V8s for Everyone: I think there will be a large group of new Z06 customers that would have otherwise [and/or previously] considered the sound of the Italian V8 and V12 quite repulsive, whiny, shouty, weak, or otherwise lacking that "American Muscle." Some of those customers would now quickly deny it or claim that somehow the [90%] Z06 sound is actually a unique and new sound of "American Muscle." Ultimately I think it serves to validate that the Italians had it right long ago.
      
   2. Just Isn't for Me: Among the many aspects tied to American sports cars, the thing that always becomes the nail in the coffin when I come close to considering any American sports car is the idea of dealing with Ford/GM car dealers, salesmen, parts, and service. Having dealt with it fairly regularly on behalf of some family members that insist on buying those brands, the thought of it just has me asking myself.. what are doing..? For example, the idea attempting to secure a Ford GT allocation back when it came out was countered by the idea of my crappy local Ford dealership(s) even laying a hand on it. No thanks.

 

Ferrari F8 Oil Change: $895 bucks - Corvette Z06 Oil Change $100 bucks.

 

Ferrari F8 oil change. Free for 7 years.

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remember:
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Obviously, grey market prices are one thing which is what the poster was referring to in terms of pricing on C8's in Europe RIGHT NOW.
When the car is sold by GM itself in Europe and you find the price outrageous, you need to thank your country for their tariffs...clearly the car (C8 Stingray) is not priced like a 911 in the U.S. nor did GM DOUBLE the price of the car when selling in Europe.

 

As @Il Co-Pilota, so kindly pointed out, you've already paid for your oil changes for the first 7 years.

I'm just not a point A to point B type person. Or a sit behind a Suburban, Tahoe, Trailblazer, and Bolt while waiting for someone in service to finally help me type person. The sound of the Z06 doesn't eclipse the many mediocre points of Chevy ownership for me.

There are people who will buy products that undercut the competition by focusing on the places they think matter most, while doing just enough if not less than enough in other places. "Eh, it's good enough." For those people, there are companies willing to make those products. Many of them in fact. Go on Amazon, and half the clone products on there are aiming at that very idea. Some will settle for 'good enough' when it comes to their sports cars, but insist on the very finest for something else in their lives, and that's cool too.

But there are people, for certain products, that prefer that the details were considered; that the designers of the product did not stop at 90% because the last 10% was hard, or might cost more.

Judging by this thread, there are plenty of people that are surprised and delighted by the C8 and the C8 Z06, which is why this thread exists here. To me, I can appreciate the car as I have done over the years with previous version, but I cannot bring myself to ever believe the design of the C8 and C8 Z06 did not also follow the "this is good enough" decision making process at Chevy.

 

So much absurdity in this thread. The reason the C8 Z06 offers so much bang for the buck are the economies of scale that a huge manufacturer like Chevrolet can bring to bear that Ferrari couldn't achieve in a lifetime of making small batch supersport automobiles. It has nothing to do with cutting corners on quality to achieve a price point. They don't use ultra rare materials for things like the base interior because they can't take advantage of economy of scale for that... so they make those materials optional or only available on higher market segment variants.

Waiting in line for service? Do you just show up expecting a red carpet to be laid out for you? I make appointments with my Ford dealerships (One in San Antonio and the other in Denver) and I'm treated like a king because I have one of the greatest vehicles Ford has ever made (Only the GT has more cachet). Seriously, if my Raptors had any quality issues, I'd know, because I take them (I've had two) off road and haul ass over ripply desert floors, and I take them into the National Forest to powerslide in the snow all afternoon. They are as solid and reliable as a stone ax. I'd like to see the Ferrari that could go 100 MPH over washboard pavement for hours on a weekend day and not shake apart! Plus, they handle like 5,500 pound Ferraris on twisty roads with their active suspension. I want to do a track day with one!

This truck has sat nav, adaptive CC, collision avoidance, Sirius XM, leather interior, paddle shift, and carbon fiber everywhere! Every option but the power moon roof. And I can beat the s*** out of it off road with zero worries. If I could only have one vehicle, I would choose a second generation two-door SuperCab Raptor OVER ANY FERRARI EVER MADE!

Looks better than most modern Ferraris too (I'm looking at you fugly ass 812).
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Welcome

What you're saying is totally true. In fact, you're merely reinforcing the very reason that Chevy will always choose cost over design for things they perceive as little importance. Someone high up GM will always value the profit over making the choice to redesign something that they could easily borrow from a parts bin. The pressure that an industrial designer at GM faces to pull from the parts bin is likely an incredibly difficult [and annoying] thing to ignore and overcome. In design, the harmony of different elements coming together is something that is not only challenging to achieve, but even more challenging to bring to market due to the employees [and customers] value on 'bang for the buck' as something so crude and skin deep. The lack of patience of [some] leaders that manage the pieces that make up a business unit (bean counters, marketing, operations) drives short-sided decisions.

Like I said, there are companies willing to make products for customers that don't care if anyone spent time thinking about how a slightly faster processor could improve power delivery, how a space between trunk and painted body will appear, how the backside of the driver seat looks a bit more like an intern was assigned to deal with it if there's no rear passengers to look at it, how the the design of the graphics on the display were likely signed off by someone in accounting, or even something as simple as the way the experience of servicing your car was chalked up to 'economies of scale.' There's nothing wrong with that. But let's not confuse this for the brands/makes that go the extra mile to care for the things that you didn't know you wanted someone to care about until you see it.

If I was a modern Ford GT owner, yes I would like my collectible and likely irreplacable car cared for in a manner that is a cut above the customers who purchased a truck worth less than 10th of the value. Ford Raptors are incredible, but they are 100% replaceable. I don't need to be treated like a "king" but I also want to feel comfortable that the process of servicing it will meet the $ of the vehicle. I certainly hope that dealers out there take good care of GT owners.

With a C8 or Z06, sound aside, I just don't expect that. Maybe Chevy will surprise their customers, but given that Chevy's dealer network is huge with millions of cars on the road the service, it's unlikely they'd go above and beyond for a Z06. But like I said, there's a large customer base out there that simply doesn't care, and that's totally fine.

I don't think I said anything about quality issues. Your comparison between a sporty truck and a super car is a new one for me. Haven't seen the two being compared before. The same things could be said about a Z06 (thread topic) and the truck as far as off road durability.

I think it's pretty clear how much you love your truck.

 

The "Chevy dealer service sucks" is a TIRED refrain, spoken by people who MAYBE owned a Chevrolet 20 years ago...
Are there some Chevrolet dealers that suck? No doubt.
Are there some Ferrari dealers that suck? No doubt.

What I know is that MY Chevrolet dealer takes perfect care of me and my 2 Chevrolets (2017 SS and 2021 C8). And they also took great care of my 2014 C7...and my 2008 C6...etc.
Make an appointment, the service writer is READY with what I want done to the car, and I'm out the door in 1.5 hours.

PS. I wonder if the California T owner gets the same treatment as the LaFerrari owner at dealer?

 

You think a C8 Z06 will have a higher MSRP than a Porsche Turbo or a GT3 in Europe? This is cars being sold by GM Europe, NOT the grey market. If the Z06 does end up being higher, then that is completely on TARIFFS. There is no way GM DOUBLED the MSRP from the states to Europe. Tadge has been VERY clear that they want Corvette to finally be important in Europe.

 

My chevy dealer service is probably better or or par with my Ferrari service department....which is less than stellar for owning a high end small batch exotic car. My local Porsche dealer is way ahead of my local Ferrari dealer in terms of service and how they do things.

I am excited about the new C8 Z06. I seriously hope the Z06 C8 performance stands the car world on its ear. I have been in a few C8's and I have not seen or felt any quality of fitment issues or subpar materials. Yes I love my Ferrari and the Ferrari brand but I am not a 1 brand kind of guy either. I do prefer bands and those are Ferrari and Porsche for sports/exotic cars. I do get more excitement and a great felling from driving my Ferrari so right now in my life I am lucky to be able to afford a Ferrari and am enjoying the car.

I loved all my Porsche's...tremendous built and performing vehicles. Every Carrera S, GTS and GT3 and my wife Cayenne and various Panameras were stout incredible machines. Later in life as things change I will see if I keep driving exotics or sports cars or get into something different.

This thread is pretty hilarious to me... so much snobbery going around. This thread reminds me of the clicks and snobs I see at car meets from all sorts of owners....me... I will park next to any car at a meet, track with any guy and any car on the track and hang out with anyone and talk cars. We all should enjoy cars...period...thats what it is about for me.

 

So I just watched the latest video of the C8 Z06 pounding around the ‘Ring and I can’t help but feel that the exhaust note sounds somewhat synthetic. It’s as if the tonal character or pitch doesn’t change as much as I expected it to while it swept through the rev range. I then switched to a recent spy video of the 992 GT3 RS which I concluded sounded more organic and dynamic.

My initial impression was that the Z06 sounds great but then something seemed off as I got deeper into the video. Sort of how I thought the 458 Speciale sounded great during my first drive but eventually decided it was more shouty than symphonic. Acquiring an 812 probably didn’t help either.

Perhaps this is just the inherent character of a large capacity, normally aspirated flat plane V8?

 

Uhh, what?

 

Nobody said GM doubled the price. That's just what happens when shipping, vat, import duties and taxes are added.

Grey import or not, these things won't change. I don't give a hoot what Tadge says, so far the Corvette has never had a place in Europe and that won't change any time soon. The sales start in a month, and Chevy dealers all o er Europe has made next to no effort advertising this. You are dreaming if you think the C8 will be a massive hit in Europe and knock Porsche off the pedestal.

If you can't understand why the car becomes so expensive here, that's on you. Google is your friend. For sfarters, in Germany there's a 19% VAT which is also added to the shipping costs. Then there's import duty on top of that. Also there are registration and environmental taxes. And finally there's a GM dealer trying to make a living.

Trust me, Porsche, Mercedes AMG and BMW M is not going anywhere.

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What Ferrari does better than just about anyone, is intake design. Those are the reason why an 812 or 458 sound the way they do. You can't just slap a flat plane crank into a V8 and expect it to scream. Yes there's a lot of sound coming from the exhaust too, but that sound is actually very dependant on the pulses and resonance in the intake. I think the final product will sound more like the Gt350R than a 458.

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Where did I say the C8 would knock Porsche off the pedestal?
So now you're just making stuff up.
Can you possibly be MORE condescending? I understand full well why the car will be expensive in Europe...and it's NOT because GM chose to jack the price through the roof (which, of course, I pointed out and you ignored). It's because America chooses to be a good sport with car imports and that favor is NOT returned in Europe.
As far as GM marketing the car in Europe, did it occur to you that maybe the European allocation of the car is already sold out?
And of course you don't care what Tadge says...you have all the answers.... along with all the new cars YOU'VE designed.
PS. The Ford flat plane in the Shelby GT350 has a totally different firing order than the Z06 (or the 458 for that matter). Surprised YOU don't know that.

Anyhow, I'm out. Once someone starts taking simple statements like: "Tadge wants the Corvette to be important in Europe" and twists that to: "You are dreaming if you think the C8 will be a massive hit in Europe and knock Porsche off the pedestal"
Amazing.

 

Let me start of by saying I genuinely love American cars and we've owned plenty over the years.

American cars in Europe never really caught on, to the average person there really is an image problem. It's by no means a "bad" image, it's more one of ''unsophisticated'' and poorly made bla bla (this especially stems from cars made in the 90s, the difference in quality between the two continents really was enormous).

Due to the aforementioned taxes, duties, dealers and so on the cars are also incredibly expensive, though it does vary by country. In the UK arguably American made vehicles could actually be pretty successful, but because US manufacturers tend to be unwilling to make RHD vehicles, they never caught on (they did in fact made the current gen mustang in RHD, and it's priced very close to the US price. A 5 liter V8 mustang from a UK dealer is around £40k, and they really caught on!).

The C8 corvette base price in the Netherlands is 160K Euro (the 5 liter mustang is 100K euro....the utterly pointless 2.3 eco boost is 65K). It's Porsche 911 money.

I'd love the Corvette to be more popular in Europe, and if the governments didn't stick insane taxes on them, I'm sure they would be...If it was just the VAT difference, damn they would really be everywhere. In the Netherlands they'd be half the price of an M3!

 

^^^
FWIW
GM is offering the C8 in RHD. I think they start exporting in October (as 2022 models) and I think some RHD C8's have already made it into Japan.
It will be interesting to see how the car does everywhere else.
Although, with EU taking the LOW road on VAT/Duty/Tariffs on American made cars, it might by a pointless exercise.
But then all the Eurogeniuses will get to claim victory over big bad GM
Yay for them...

PS. Needless to say, we all know how to fix that....announce that we are matching them, tax for tax, tariff for tariff, duty for duty and see how long it takes for the EU to change it's tune. Ferrari/Porsche/BMW/M-B need U.S sales a LOT more than GM needs the EU.

 

I said earlier on in this thread tha the C8 was mainly competing against the Porsche. There is nothing condesending in that. I used it as a point of reference, because for the C8 to be a serious contender here, it needs to put a proper dent in the market of other cars. You are getting way too sensitive. But you know what's condesending? People constantly trying to tell exotic car owners that their purchse was a bad purchse because you get the same car for way less, bla bla bla. Questioning other people's abilities to make informed and sensible decisions is very condesending.

Whenever it was not put into context, I was VERY clear that I thought the C8 was,a nice car overall. I have only spoken of it as a nice car for the price when doing an A/B comparison. It's in your head to portray me as some kind of stereotypical "Ferrari *********", and yet you don't know me and have ever met me.

It's the same with the automotive industry. I will nkt disclose any personal info here, but just know that I am in fact affiliated with the automotive industry, also from a design perspective. I do actually know a little bit about what goes on in Europe. Again, YOU were the one condesending to me as you don't know the first thing about what I do. Have it ever occurred to you that Tadge could be wrong, and that he is trying to "sell" the idea of the C8 making a big splash in Europe?

I've spoken to people who are involved with the official sale and distribution of the C8 in Europe, and according to them the price will be the same or similar to what it was pre-official sales. These are people working for aGM in Europe trying to make this happen. Don't you think they would try to reel me in as a potential client and shout it from the rooftops if the cars suddenly dropped 1/3 or 1/4 in price compared to grey market import?

Now as for the firing order. Well. You are dead wrong.

Ford: 15483726

Ferrari: 18453627

However, the engines are not numbered the same way.

Ford:
1234
8765

Ferrari:
1234
5678

I think you can figure the rest out for yourself.

Now please, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Enjoy your C8, it's a nice car, and leave me the **** alone!

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No comprehension on your part.
Re-read your posts.
"Minor leagues"
"Don't care what Tadge says"
Etc...
The saddest thing is I NEVER claimed the C8 was a Ferrari equal...never claimed the C8 would "knock Porsche of the pedestal"...these were all YOUR inventions due to your inability to read and comprehend what I wrote. I simply REACTED to your tripe about a car that is clearly better than you want to admit. Along the way, you continued to take simple statements and twist them...
Don't believe it? Re-reading is your friend.