Alfa Romeo Sauber | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Alfa Romeo Sauber

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Feb 7, 2018.

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  1. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Probably not.
     
  2. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Like Williams?
     
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  3. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    The modern Alfa Romeo Giulia is their best car in 40 years...and a great car...but sadly will likely be the last to truly represent their heritage. As is traditional, it is the company's management that is the source of their failures, around the world and in the USA. In the 1950s, Alfa sold the US distribution rights to a man named Hoffman. He threw together a third rate dealer/service network that has been the weak link that has continually let down the American Alfa buyers. If you compare the world wide size and prominence of Alfa in the 1950s to Porsche in the 1950s, and how they compare today...the story of Alfa's failure could not be more clearly written. Alfa at this point is just a name and a pawn in modern F1. Maybe Sauber will go with Mercedes and keep Bottas...maybe Alfa will team up with the Russians and what's left of Haas...and keep Gio as a reserve driver. Stellantis will continue to sell its back log of Giulias while they rush a Peugeot (on a Giulia chassis?) into the dealerships. Maybe even one more Alfa model on a Peugeot chassis...and then the marque will die and disappear.
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Ok, I need to define gangbusters: Not in overall terms compared to the rest of the field but in comparison to the current and previous versions of Sauber. They haven't been competitive since their BMW engine years. And a Merc engine would certainly boost them past some other backmarkers like Haas and Williams (well to a degree they already achieve that today) and allow them to play in the midfield against e.g. Alpine and AM.
     
  5. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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  6. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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  7. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    ACCORDING TO THE UNITED STATES PRESS
    Michael Andretti, close to buying Sauber to be in F1 in 2023

    -In August there were already rumors that Andretti had his sights set on Formula 1
    -Sauber is drawn as the ideal team for his landing in the Great Circus

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Michael Andretti in Indianapolis


    A few weeks ago the first rumors emerged that the Andretti were interested in buying a Formula 1 team. Today, from the United States, they point out that this team is Alfa Romeo and that the plan is to complete the transaction to be on the grid for season 2023.

    Michael Andretti, former Formula 1 driver son of F1 champion Mario Andretti, owns Andretti Autosport, one of the best IndyCar teams. In recent months he has sought to broaden his interests and has set his sights on the Great Circus. Last month we mentioned that Sauber and Williams were two of the teams that were on his radar .

    "It would be great to be able to do that. If a suitable opportunity arises, we would seize it. But we are not there yet," Andretti acknowledged to Racer in August.


    Now from the United States they assure that he will buy Sauber to be on the F1 grid in 2023. "According to our sources, Michael Andretti, with the help of Gainbridge, will buy Sauber Motorsport AG (Alfa Romeo) to enter Formula 1 in 2023", has shared the American podcast Pit Lane Parley.


    Gainbridge is a financial services company that came to Andretti as a sponsor four years ago. Right now, he is also a personal sponsor of Colton Herta, Andretti's highest-ranked driver in the Championship.

    These Andretti rumors come just as Valtteri Bottas has just signed for Alfa Romeo on a multi-year contract, in what until now seemed like an agreement between Mercedes and Sauber not to leave the Finn without a seat in the wake of George Russell's promotion to the main team.


    There was talk that the Hinwil team was considering the option of using Mercedes engines and that as part of the agreement, Bottas and Nyck de Vries would be their pilots. This may change if the rumors are true and Andretti buys Sauber by 2023.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://soymotor.com/noticias/michael-andretti-cerca-de-comprar-sauber-para-estar-en-f1-en-2023-990265&prev=search&pto=aue
     
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  8. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    Both of these feel closer to clickbait than news just summarising existing info
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Hmm, interesting development.

    Just on common sense I would have expected Andretti to buy Haas, after all an American team etc. Then again, they are as American as the Sauber team. :)

    Would be great if it happened. But remaining highly sceptical.
     
  10. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

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    Well, I'm not an expert in the history of automobiles, but Max Hoffman imported BMW, VW, Porsche, Alfa, etc into the US and is legendary in the Porsche world. He influenced car makers to make a few tweaks to their cars, resulting in him getting at least some credit for the Porsche Spyder, Mercedes Gullwing, etc. Also, he was such a loser that he had Frank Lloyd Wright design his Jaguar dealership in Manhattan, and his personal home. Pretty much a loser I guess.
     
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  11. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Fixed it for you.;)
     
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  12. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Every one of those successful automakers bought back their rights from Hoffman as soon as they saw what a disaster he was, and created their own US distribution systems. Except Alfa...they were the last to jump ship and that put them far behind the others. My dad bought two Facel Vega HK500s from Hoffman in Pasadena. Facel didn't do too well in the USA either. Max secured the Alfa franchise by showing Alfa he had one million dollars in spare parts. He didn't show them that he bought those parts at pennies on the dollar because they were for older models no longer being made or imported in the USA. Certainly Alfa's "what do we need with America" attitude contributed to their sad status today. All that said, for the money, I don't think there is a car out there today that can touch the new Giulia.
     
  13. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

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    Wikipedia said it was "Jaguar" and this article says it was designed to be a Jag showroom, but by the time it was completed it Mr. Hoffman had moved on to selling Mercedes. https://hyperallergic.com/69023/the-shocking-demolition-of-frank-lloyd-wrights-park-avenue-showroom/
     
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  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Alpha is already using a competitors engine !! the only thing is that the engine is constructed in the same country s the mark calls home.
     
  15. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Alfa Romeo (not Alpha) are not really competitors to Ferrari and in fact use a Ferrari design for the basis of their V6 QF engines.

    Also, they have common shareholders in the Agnelli family through their Exor holding company.
     
  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    EVERY team in F1 is a competitor to every OTHER team in F1.

    I was specifically talking about the teams not the parent companies.
     
  17. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    i dunno but i feel they need to keep Gio, and hire proper designers.
     
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  18. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Haas?
     
  19. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    If Gio is out, he will be at the helm of a Ferrari hypercar in LM...not a bad option if you ask me, i would rather have a shot at Le Mans in a Ferrari than being a backmarker in f.1...
     
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  20. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    Yes, technically they are. In practice not so much.
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    good point! That as Alonso's play too.
     
  22. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sauber-chairman-opens-up-on-disagreements-that-triggered-resignation/6832037/

    Sauber chairman opens up on disagreements that triggered resignation
    By: Jonathan Noble
    Co-author: Franco Nugnes
    Nov 29, 2021, 7:17 AM
    Sauber chairman Pascal Picci has revealed that disagreements with team boss Fred Vasseur about driver choice were the trigger for him resigning from the Alfa Romeo Formula 1 squad.
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    Picci has been an important figure at Sauber over recent years, having played a key role in saving the team in 2016 when it was sold to investors Longbow Finance.

    He stayed on board as chairman of Sauber holdings to work closely with the Islero Investments consortium of entrepreneurs that were headed by Finn Rausing, as it rebranded under the Alfa Romeo moniker.

    But ahead of the Mexican GP, Picci surprised the squad when he announced that he would be stepping down.

    Speaking for the first time about the decision, which has not been widely publicised, Picci says that, while he maintains faith in the team’s owners, he did not see eye-to-eye with Vasseur.

    "I do not want to be associated with the management of Fred Vasseur in the future,” he told it.motorsport.com.

    While Picci declined to elaborate on the specific issues that divided them, he did explain that the choice of drivers for the future was central to what happened.

    Sauber recently signed F2 front runner Guanyu Zhou to be the teammate to Valtteri Bottas in 2022, with the Chinese driver opening up many commercial opportunities to the team.

    While Picci has nothing against Zhou, the team’s 2022 choice does mark a departure from the previous close alliance that the team had with Ferrari as part of its Alfa Romeo association, and had led to the presence of Antonio Giovinazzi for the past three years.

    "The way in which the drivers were chosen was one of the points that broke the table between me and the current management,” explained Picci.

    He added: “I am sorry that Antonio is no longer here, and I am happy that Zhou will arrive. I have known the Chinese youngster and also his family ever since we wanted to take him to the Sauber Driver Academy, as well as [evaluate] the commercial opportunities that he can open up ".

    But while unhappy about the driver situation, Picci says he maintains complete faith in Sauber’s owners, who recently reiterated their commitment to the team in the wake of talks with Michael Andretti about a buy-in.

    Speaking about why the owners pondered a sale, Picci said: “What happened at the Belgian GP is still an open wound.

    “Having had a three-lap non-race behind the safety car allowed Williams to earn points that took away almost any chance of regaining their position in the constructors' championship. Spa was an important watershed for us: it was one of the main reasons why we decided to give up F1 and to sell.”

    The Andretti talks eventually collapsed because Sauber’s owners did not want to relinquish full control of the team, and Picci has faith that Rausing is doing the right thing for the future.

    "He is free to make choices, he represents the shareholders and is a reliable person who puts all his passion and energy into it,” he said.

    “I was placed in the minority and I drew my conclusions. Finn remains as trustworthy to me as the other people who represent the company. Without hesitation, I sincerely wish the best possible for the whole team.

    “I am calm about the future of the team because the owners of the team are enthusiastic, and very passionate people, whose number one priority is the protection of the staff who make up the team.

    “My resignation, therefore, must in no way become a cause for concern for the Sauber staff. Of this I am sure.”
     

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