Rob's 2021 Timing Belt Adventure

Friends,

I have not posted much in a while, as I been busy with my old band, but I put off a timing belt replacement for too long and decided to go for it. I may need some help, advice, and or group hugs if necessary!

First topic. I have always used the double nut method to remove the 3 studs holding the rear cam belt cover on. The cover to my knowledge cannot be removed unless the studs are removed first. It was hard to get them out, is there a tool that the professionals use to remove these without damaging the threads?

Also is this the correct forum to post this thread, or would I be better off in the 308 section. I was hoping some of the experts might be here and take pity on me! Ha Here are some pics. It is getting harder to get the car up on stands as I get older. I wish I had room for a lift and very envious of those that have one!!!

I am amazed after having this car for 27 years at the amount of work and love I put into this magnificent automobile. I have 10,000 pics, some focusing on smaller bits I painstakingly restored while neglecting other larger bits! Anyway thank you all for any advice in advance!

Rob
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I have good luck using the "roller" style stud removers:

https://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Roller-Remover-Removal-Imperial/dp/B01M4QY5V7

 

Snap on CG-500 is the tool to have. I has interchangeable collets that fit different thread sizes. It will get them out without thread damage. I use mine constantly.

 

There was a set on ebay a few months ago and no one bid on it. It was 300 bucks. A fair price for snap on tools.

 

http://www.birdman308.com/service/timing_belt/timing_belt_procedure.htm

 

Dear Friends,

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions!!! I probably need only the metric version if they have it. It is good to see old Friends here, and of course my favorite tech Wade! He helped me so much I put his name in my thank you list on our last album! I am getting older and even though I have notes, I appreciate all your input in helping me get this project done. I wanted to send this Dino to Wade to get the engine rebuilt and new exhaust valves but that may have to wait a bit. Today its the AC and front belt cover!

Rob
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Friends,

Im not there yet, but I just read the Birdman tutorial above (again). When I first did this 25 years ago, I locked down the cam caps with a piece of card board. What I found out is after I did this a few times that you need to move one of the cam pulleys a bit to get the belt slid over on it. I want to take the valve covers off, but they are not leaking anywhere and I used the 3 bond and remember the days it took for me to clean the head and cover surfaces, so I will leave them on. I carefully mark the pulleys and belts and where the camshaft goes into the seal. I remember only one cam would try to slide off the cam but never used the lockdown method again. Right now I am at the water pump removal, though. I had a hard time getting the AC compressor out but came out after I removed the water pump pulley! I have 2 cars both with AC's that work but I never use them as they never cooled the car at all even when working correctly. It was on till the later models Ferrari figured out the fix I guess! I would like to leave them off but will not too keep the cars original.

Everything looks pretty clean and good, a bit of fluff on the belt cover and ac tensioner which I think is a bit of coolant that may have dripped out the water pump and dried and got flung around (see pic below). I have been using Dexcool in this car for 20 years and it comes out so clear you can read a newspaper through the container its in, but its orange as so is the fluff. I am embarrassed looking at the engine, till I see pics of other cars, then I feel better. With the exception of a few drips when not driven and cold, this pump has never leaked. I am going to have the same guy to rebuild it he uses a supposedly secret seal material. Ha

I found a snap on CG-500 tool set it was more than I wanted to pay but was like new, and had some other parts I may sell like the SAE stuff! It looks like they dont even make that tool anymore. I hope it works on those cam cover studs, there is not much thread sticking out there (about 1.75 nuts worth)!

Thanks again all, having fun working on car. I have to give a shout out to Dave Helms, I put his coolant hoses on there when I did my last service and they are like new soft and supple and didn't have to struggle to get any loose, amazing stuff!

Rob



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Shouldn’t your car be a “Black Machine” brother?

 

Robert, it may be the coolest thank you I have seen. Album note, who would have thought I would make it that big?
If you don't want the SAE bits, let me know and we can make a deal.
In fact, I may want any of the bits you don't want from your purchase.

 

Wade not so quick! A slide hammer for removing stubborn Ferrari studs, what could go wrong! HAAA I am hoping it grabs the few threads I need
As for the thank you, you deserved much more, plus we are just a footnote in music history...

I want to paint that dampener but scared to remove it again! Am I wrong not to lock the cams?

 

Friends,

Should I replace my alternator it is 12 years old, I was going to take it off and clean it? Is there a place that rebuilds them? Some of the new ones look different and I want to keep the same Bosch look!Water pump came off easy!

Rob

 

They rebuild those alternators. Although, I don't know if Ventura has a place for that.

 

Friends,

So I found a really nice rebuilt alternator but it's 14 v 65 amps. I know that's more than the factory rated one will this cause any damage to my electrical system or will it actually charge the battery better? That was hard to get off. I was smart enough last time I serviced the car to reverse the bolt holding the alternator to its bracket so you don't have to remove the dipstick tube, but still with the alternator heat shield in place it barely had enough room to slip off!

It's been a while since I did a major service and I'm amazed at how some of the prices and availability have changed!

Rob

 

Friends,

I have installed a rebuilt alternator, having my water pump rebuilt, at TDC (PM 1-4) and ready to take off and press on my new Hill Tensioner bearings. I think I lubricated the springs in the tensioner housings, any suggestions on lube or technique? I probably used my go to redline CV2 grease last time. Everything is going smoothly and taking more time as usual with me! Ha

Rob

 

Friends,

No reply on the grease! HA Another question what is the consensus on when to tighten the tensioner bearings, after installing new belts? Here is the factory instructions. I know one Ferrari tech told me he uses a harmonic tool, I am not sure that will work for me!

Rob

 

Robert,
I like to install the belt and then turn the engine to put tension on the belt and I watch the adjuster. When the adjuster has moved and taken up the tension, I tighten the bolt. I then turn the engine over a couple turns and make sure the belt is still tight. I then torque the tensioner bolt and forget it. Well, I paint mark it so my old brain knows I torqued it, then I forget it. If I sleep on it, I usually forget everything.

 

Wade,

Thanks for the expert advice, as always!

I assume you mean when the tensioner reaches the tightest tension during the revolution? Do you tighten up each tensioner separately?
I know too much tension prematurely wears out the drive pulley bearings!

I am going to lightly grease the spring and plunger with my redline CV grease, does that sound right?

Rob

 

No he means when the tensioner has extended the most, which is when the belt has the least tension on it.

 

I tighten the tensioner when it is most extended as yelcab stated. I believe this is what you meant in your question. I have yet to have a tension bearing killed by a belt that was too tight. I am not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it. I have had a new bearing start making noise, but it was just a bad bearing. Nothing was too tight.
I can see where a water pump belt could cause issues if it was too tight as it has leverage on the bearings, as the pulley is at the end of the shaft. The timing belt rides right on the bearing and I don't think you could over tighten the belt and cause a bearing issue. I think you can over tighten and cause a belt issue though.
Just my thoughts.

 

I just disassembled my tensioners on my 512, and I believe they are similar if not identical to yours. There are 7 different surfaces that slide against each other: spring to piston, piston to sleeve, spring to sleeve, L bracket to frame, main bolt to frame (in 3 places side of head on the flat, underneath head, and side of smooth cylinder). Putting grease on the outside sliding surfaces probably would wear off quickly, but a very very light layer or polishing those surfaces might not hurt. And remove any burrs between the bolt and frame - I swear mine were only putting out about 1/3 the force before I cleaned and lubed vs after. And getting hung up on a burr sometimes! Inspect yours very carefully, mine had a good chance of under tensioning the belt and causing it to skip teeth. What do new ones cost anyway, might be cheap insurance.

 

Wade and all,

I meant if the belt was too tight, it might strain the outer small non-sealed (in my car) bearings behind the drive pulleys that connect to the crank. I had to replace mine...Ferrari
later switched to a sealed bearing in there. I now have the tool to remove them from the front but hope I dont have too again soon!! ha

More important I am confused by the terminology. I know I am overthinking this as always, but if the tensioner and spring was extended it would put more pressure on the belt (see pic)?
If it was compressed that would be less tension, if I am correct? Maybe I am confused by the definition of what is extended that you guys are using. I was talking about the spring and plunger on the unit, not the tensioner bearing itself.

Rob


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You're a brave man.

 

The plunger extended the most -- i.e. the longest belt path. People get this mixed up because they think being in the position with the spring compressed the most is best -- it isn't (that gives a shorter belt path and the lowest average belt tension).

 

Friends,

Thank you all!

Rob

 

Friends,

I've had things going on in my life that prevented me from working on the Ferrari but now I'm back at it and I have a few more questions! Of course about timing belt tensioning! ha

I'm about ready to put the new belts on and I want to make sure I do this right. After I put both belts on at TDC, it says rotated one full turn only to TDC. (Doesn't the crank turn twice twice to achieve TDC?)
Also do you keep turning the engine again to TDC to achieve the correct tension on the other belt?

Also getting the belt over the lower pulley is behind the dampener, I had to bend the belt slightly to get it off is there a trick for this too?

I apologize for all the seemingly repeated questions. I just want to make sure I get this part right and it's been a while since I did this.

Rob