Citroen hydraulics - Khamsin, Bora, early Merak, late Indy

Yes.
Need a new main sphere and your 2 existing brake accumulators rebuilt.

 

Somewhere on here the perfect counts are documented but yes 1.5 means your main accumulator is weak unless ... you have a non LHM Merak!

 

? Maybe he should do the brake test first.

 

In my experience never worth splitting the rebuild dates.
You do all 3 and record the date.
At least you are safely done w/all for 8-10 years.

Not worth the hassle not to for a few bucks.

 

And what if he already had a year or 2 ago, maybe we should ask first before doling out advice.

 

Thank you for all of the thoughtful responses, I really appreciate the more experience eyes and coaching. this car is had a lot of work done to it over the years but unfortunately the prior owner managed to lose a lot of the paperwork, so I don’t have evidence of this fear is being redone/replaced recently. The car is so few miles on it that it’s hard to tell the age of the various components but given the unknowns it’s probably wise counsel to just do all of them and then put a date on them as suggested.

I am a hands-on guy, and it’s highly satisfying to be driving a car that you nursed back to health, but I’m not obstinate about it. If I am reasonably confident with a wrench should I dive in and do this myself or is this a job for a specialist?

 

I don't know about on the Merak but the replacement of the brake spheres on a Bora not so straightforward as the main sphere. Look for dates on them, maybe someone was thoughtful.
Also look for the reference about the number of pumps on the brakes. Then you'll know just how much the lhm has or has not been neglected. These accumulators lose their charge just sitting so low mileage doesn't necessarily mean they're still OK. If they're also ridiculously low like the main one then I'd assume the worse and plan on replacing the LHM fluid as a precaution. The good news is it's far superior to brake fluid when it comes to corrosion inside your braking mechanicals. Check for leaks on the headlamp cylinders. Check everything and it's also possible that your pump and regulator my need service but you can find this out BEFORE you break open the system so that you know the full extent of your service.

Don't be put off, it's not rocket science just hydraulics.

 

A few pictures of the repair of the LHM braking system on my Indy 4900.
To recall, due to the symptoms (very frequent clickings) the suspect was the main accumulator.
The whole system with "patina" before dismantling:

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The main accumulator after removal.
The large pin will be inserted in the hole to verify where is the membrane:

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See it?
No nitrogen left, the gas enveloppe inside the sphere was empty!

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Replaced by a new OEM Citroen sphere, same model than for the SM:

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Now the system works nominally.

 

Yes and then the very people who were so clueless about maintaining their cars are the very same who badmouth the LHM system, the reality is that millions of Citroen's fitted with LHM were driven every day and had zero issues. Of course like everything on all rarely used old cars it will slowly deteriorate with lack of mileage but proper maintenance is all it takes, it is not rocket science, just simple plumbing.

 

That Indy looks quite unkempt. I'd suspect everything. When I got my Bora it had been driven so very little and had spent 10 years in a museum. I think all the guy did was wash it, oh and back the exhaust tips into a cement abutment. I drove it home from Oklahoma City and everything worked just fine. It was like a new car really except that it sat a lot ... Within a year or so I had replaced all the accumulators.

 

Good points.
The picture on the overall LHM system above relates to some time ago during the restoration, before I discovered my braking issues.
According to the seller, the two braking spheres had been refurbished and the braking system was then good...

Actually not only the main accumulator had to be replaced (it's a one piece metal sphere) but also the two small spheres had to be overhauled again.

Should I mention that there was also a leak in one of the rear calipers?
Apparently a worn piston seal because of flaking/rusty metal inside the caliper.
Maybe a bad previous repair, air/water ingress in the circuit and then corrosion during long term storage.

So yes, no use for a long time is detrimental...
Now it works!

 

That photo was a good indicator then. Glad it's all fixed. When I got my car I knew very little about the LHM system. So I took all the calipers apart expecting to find something but ... everything was perfect after 10 years. It's an amazing fluid. But the spheres go bad just looking at them. I had a main hose from the pump that was weeping with the replacement from MIE failing again not long after that. That was a design issue IMO. So I reduced the stress on where it mounts to the subframe.

 

I've only driven the non LHM Merak with the Bora style dash so when I looked at the LHM version parts catalog I was a bit surprised to see that it looks like it has an LHM operated clutch?

 

It does!

 

There are a lot of times when I wish I'd had this on the Bora. Looking at the piece I wonder why they never put it on the Bora?

 

I have a small leak on the bottom of the LHM reservoir of my Indy:

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An attempt to seal the bottom of the level control pipe was not successful.
Apparently it is the metal crimping on the edges of the bottom plate that is failing.

Is that repairable?
If not, any sources to find a replacement reservoir (preferably in the EU)?

 

Answering to myself after having better searched in the forum.
McGrath in the UK offers a repro tank at an outrageous (imho) cost, more than 1000 Euros:

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Looking for a more affordable option, the only way out seems to have the original tank leak-tested under pressure and further repaired by soldering.
Radiator shops may do that kind of job.
Any experience gained by people here following this route?

 

Try Blondeau DS the leader in Citroen vintage hydraulics in France, the website come right up and they speak English.

 

I seem to remember someone else going through this recently. It might be worthwhile to poke around in the various Maserati threads.

 

The thing is not a pressure vessel so it strikes me that a good weld or braze would be a satisfactory repair.

 

For the Bora there were no graphics in the finish, just a poor quality LHM sticky paper label slapped on. So I painted mine with some high quality automotive paint and restored the level indicator hardware, rubber and used special plastic translucent tubing for the sight glass. Much easier job than this one. That McGrath reproduction is a work of art perhaps a bit more than is deserved in such a car? I'd spend the money where it's most effective instead.

 

LHM tank drained and removed:
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Closely looking to the bottom (upside down), it reveals a previous botched repair, with a fiberglass plate glued to the bottom and lots of solder patches...

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It will be correctly repaired and hopefully good for service.