First 100% electric Ferrari in 2025 - confirmed

Although I don’t like this, I don’t feel it’s the end of Ferrari. Ferrari without a doubt wants to build ICU V12 and V8’s forever. If they need to dance with the EU BS and build a disposable computer on wheels so that they can build some engines then fine. The government of Italy is proposing special protection to the craftsman of Italian engines. This makes absolute sense and would be great.

 

Investment is far less than $100m:
https://www.dw.com/en/porsche-to-produce-fuel-as-clean-as-electric-vehicles/a-56787413


nope, because it cannot be done, at least not in any economical method, the fuel itself is expected to be about $37/gallon before any taxes
of course, they hope to get it down to $9/gallon (corresponding to $10/l and $2/l)

this press release does not mention any distribution ideas at all
https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/News/Newsroom/News-releases/2021/0330_ExxonMobil-and-Porsche-test-lower-carbon-fuel-in-race-conditions

There are about 92000 petrol stations throughout Europe, if only 25% of those were used for distribution (23000) and each had 2000 gallons storage for this product, that would require 46m gallons; but, Porsche's idea of 500m liters (132m gallons) per year in 2025 does not make any sense at all, at least not economically, the gasoline stations would have to be subsidized to keep space for that fuel available since most of the time it would not be "in stock" or it would be special delivery and only available at limited times.

Just the same, the entire exercise is completely pointless as regular gasoline will continue to be available at much lower cost and access to this efuel product quite sporadic at best, and if does not sell quickly the gasoline stations will not want the product due to it taking up valuable storage unless those stations are subsidized to do so; plus once in the storage tanks, at some point it will probably degrade where it has to be removed even if not sold and 'dumped'. Plus if those stations are spread too far apart then you would use all the fuel just to go fuel up, in other words, not convenient.

 

Nope. Not I. I couldnt care less about performance increases. We passed my performance needs over a decade ago. At this point I care about design as everything, even my girlfriends Kia, has plenty of performance for me.

 

The designs are going to be almost limitless. No more packaging issues for gas tanks,radiators,that big lump of aluminum in the front or rear, no intercoolers to worry about..cars will get streamlined. Almost anything is now possible.

 

Lets wait and see what happens

 

Well so far all the EV designs ive seen are fails. Still waiting on something cool.

 

Have a look at the Lotus..most EV's are family Cars at the moment..Rimac is quite the car..

 

Eh just looks generic to me.

 

They do.

This is from the last annual report:
"WE BELIEVE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES WILL REMAIN IMPORTANT IN FERRARI’S POWERTRAIN MIX AND THEREFORE WE CONTINUE TO INVEST IN NEW COMBUSTION ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES AND THE DEVELOPMENT OR USE OF BIO-FUELS."

ar_2020_ferrari_web.pdf

 

I couldnt care less about that sort of perfomance for a road car. Anything under 3s to 60mph or <10s to the 124mph is fast enough and id rather have a 3.5s 458 Italia than a 2.8s F8 Tributo or a 2s Tesla.

 

As long as you don't want to see a specially designed fuel directly filled into your vehicles, you don't really have to physically distribute it. One possibility would be that they just bring the fuel into the market for the anticipated lifetime mileage of the vehicle sold. There are various proposals for crediting systems that manufacturers could use in order to ensure that new vehicles equipped with renewable fuels contribute to meet their fleet targets. Such as:
CREDITING SYSTEM FOR RENEWABLE FUELS (frontier-economics.com)

What is currently needed is the political willingness to enable such a crediting system. The likely future government in Germany has already spoken out in favor of such a system.

 

OK, so that, if implemented, would only apply to new Porsche production, not the "70% of all previous production still in-use", and would help Porsche reduce the fines, but, still, if the Euro 7 particulate rules are too difficult to meet, it is entirely moot, and currently the credit proposal is only an idea (good find on the proposal)...we'll see if ends up in Euro 7. And, if it does, then any fuel Porsche dedicates to offroad/track use, is not creditable...

So much complication to combat a completely fabricated illusion.

 

As you said correctly, everything is very complicated and yes that would only affect the new registration in this case. However, it is the most important element in the whole debate, since this directly addresses the risk that from day x onwards, only BEVs may be permitted. We will probably get higher and higher admixture rates in gasoline, depending on how the market develops, which in turn is also related to how much is invested in it (e.g. how many OEMs let this to be counted towards their fleet). If we assume 100% synthetic fuels in theory, the Euro 7 issue could be fulfilled rather simply, as these fuels have significantly lower levels of pollutants. The Euro 7 regulation is, however, first and foremost detached from the CO2 regulation.

 

Well, these carbon-neutral fuels will need to be consistently made to be useful for offseting the expected lifetime usage(total miles expected before car is retired) of these cars made from "day x onwards", where does that value come from?

For example, presuming particulate and fumes in exhaust not an issue:
non-hybrid, ICE only 2027 Porsche 911, 30mpg (average), 200,000 miles "lifetime", that would be 6600 gallons, if Porsche can make 132m gallons per year, that would equate to 19,802 cars per year....for Europe only that would be sufficient

is that the idea?

If so, Porsche better have a firm ability to make such fuels in sufficient quantity and have it sold to consumers (without regard of the specific vehicle the fuel is consumed by), that means, the price needs to be comparable/economical, otherwise, the EU would say, not good enough...(I suspect Porsche would have to subsidize the fuel price...)

And, at this point, the EU is entirely moot on the entire idea of CO2 origin, if that does not become integrated into the regulations this idea will be useless. Or if EU regulations make containment of exhaust particulates/fumes too difficult to accomplish, again, moot (carbon-neutral fuels still have other chemicals in the formula).

 

But based on the Roma, they're not.....

 

To borrow a few lines from a song written by Jackson Browne, and made famous by the Eagles …


Take it easy

Take it easy

Don't let the sound of your own wheels

Drive you crazy

 

Electric cars are already outperforming gas exotics (Tesla Plaid). But performance is only part of the picture and, for me, not the biggest part. I love my 360. It's almost slow compared to all the new stuff out today, but it is the sound and the feel that never fails to put a smile on my face. It doesn't insulate me from the road--it's a glorified go-kart. I suppose there is a market for electric Ferraris. But I can't imagine ever wanting one.

 

Normally aspirated ICE cars at their peak are more than fast enough, sound great and are the most entertaining. Therefore, they will always be desirable.

Turbo charged cars are faster, make noise- i.e, loud is not music, throttle not as responsive and linear. The worst of both worlds. They will be the least desirable in the future.

Electric cars are the fastest and silent which is better than a loud dirty turbo charged ICE. They also have less moving parts and will therefore last much longer and and be cheaper to own. They are the future.

 

Depending on regulations and which regiemes are in charge... Making your own fuels will not out manouver over reaching regulations

 

When almost all cars were electric, many folks said they would never drive an ICE. Dirty noisy dont like gas around the house......

 

By out perform do you mean better Nring times?

 

I traded in a Tesla Model 3 Performance on my 812 Superfast, so I feel qualified to weigh in here.

An F-Car EV will have two major flaws compared to the ICE (especially NA) cars - soundtrack, and weight. While I hope Ferrari would resist the urge to add synthetic sound as many have done, I suspect that if they do add sound, they'll do as good a job as is possible, but it will still fall short of today's engine notes. For weight, advances in battery tech will mitigate that somewhat, as might a decision to limit range, especially for the non-GT cars (though that will pose a problem for track usage), but there's no getting away from the fact that these cars will be heavier than their ICE brethren.

On the plus side, no ICE can compare to the responsiveness to the go pedal that you get from an EV, especially a dual motor (all wheel drive) version that can put the power down. And you can go full "throttle" anytime you want without drawing unwanted attention (of course, you can't draw *wanted* attention either ). And the naturally low center of gravity you get from a "skateboard" design does really good things to handling. The mid-engine weight distribution you get from an EV helps, though I think all Ferrari's are mid-engine (some front-mid-engine) already, so that's not a step up here.

Basically, for heavy use daily driving, an EV has tons of advantages - extremely low maintenance, high reliability, stealth fighter performance, "refueling" at home each night, etc. For sunny day weekend twisty-road cruising, I would consider it to be a wash - the loss of soundtrack and the heavier weight would cancel out the aforementioned ownership advantages which don't matter as much for light use. And for track use, an EV is a poor choice - the weight would be very problematic, and the relatively low range and long-time to recharge would really cramp your track weekend style.

Since I fall in the heavy use daily driving category, I anticipate moving back to an EV, once someone comes out with an EV sports car (current prime candidates include the Tesla Roadster (if they ever get it built and if it handles well) and the EV Boxster (if the range isn't too low) as well as the F-Car EV).

 

Ah yes, very nice. I wonder if Ferrari, Audi, Jaguar, Tesla, and Cadillac ever gave one thought to the fact that the electric power grid cannot support millions of cars hooking up at night to be charged. Or maybe they'll have a HONDA generator in tow to keep the car charged? My favorite is California who has mandated through legislation that all cars MUST, MUST be electric by 2030. I am sorry to say but I predict that people will be approaching your residence, ringing your doorbell to ask if that gasoline car parked in your driveway is FOR SALE. Keep your internal combustion engined car in good working order as, regardless of all the EVs on the car lots for sale, people still must get to work on those 180-200mile commutes. I have an appropriate sign in my study that states"THINK AHEAD"....but the "e-a-d" is falling off the placard.

 

An interesting and not unexpected announcement, I understand the reticence of some to embrace EVs but I’m looking forward to seeing how Ferrari reinvents itself for the new EV era whilst enjoying the heritage of the ICE past. I’ll happily own both if they are good cars.

I am intrigued about how this announcement plays to F1 motorsport. This is very much intertwined with The Ferrari brand and heritage but has not shown any intention of moving away from the ICE, indeed most of the proclamations are about how the F1 engines are the most efficient on the planet and how they could help the industry….so will F1 inevitably become E1

The other approach is hydrogen, but there is very little infrastructure to support a move down this route. Having said that it was interesting to see JCB buying up a huge tranche of hydrogen production, so they clearly see a future for the engines in their vehicles to run on it.

A Ferrari engine running on hydrogen might not be possible….but it could provide the bridge between the visceral joy of an ICE and being kind to the environment.

 

It's going to be a sad day. But there's probably worse: what if the cars are also self-driving/crashing?