Actual price trend

The actual market for ANY car is just crazy. I owned 3 Ferraris in my life and now thinking about another Mondial. I would like a T but the market is just too high for me. I found a 3.2 that fits my needs but still a bit uncertain.

I don't want to buy a car at high market price and a year later it goes down again and loose a lot. I know a car is NOT an investment but a classic or collectable could be one. Can we trust the actual market ? Will it stay that high ? Should someone buy or not right now ?

 

The other way to look at it is that, with the higher prices, higher quality cars are getting shaken loose from owners and coming to the market.

Markets go up and down. My advice to clients is always the same, regardless of market conditions. If the right car comes available, buy it.

 

My opinion:
1) The current inflated prices/dealer markups you see are on vehicles people would use as daily drivers. This is purely driven by lack of supply. No one is paying $20K over MSRP for a civic or other similar silliness because they want to). Used car prices are ~20% higher than historically because new cars are in such short supply. In comparison, the "affordable" secondhand Ferrari market (aka sub $100K) is mostly driven by people with extra money who want an interesting toy. Very few are DDs so I'm betting that the current upwards price pressure from DDs do not unnecessarily effect Mondial pricing specifically.

2) Now, there are some people who benefitted greatly from the pandemic financially. People who bet on the (to me) irrational market rebound, crypto, etc. These people with extra money are very likely pushing up the costs of these cars.

3) Next, there is the march of time. Every year, there are fewer and fewer 10-40 yr old ferraris in this price band (either the collectors snap up the top end "cherry" models OR wear and tear finally get the lower end models).

4) Lastly, there is inflation. Money is worth less so assets, even traditionally depreciating ones, become worth more. I remember reading about an article about how folks in Iran would tie up their money in cars vs the Iranian currency because they were a store of value and fungible (despite the size).

IMO, #2 will be hit when there is another significant market correction. However, the dwindling supply (#3) and inflation (#4) will insure that prices aren't likely to drop any further. I'm not expecting a spike in prices but it wouldn't surprise me if they (clarification: the workaday older ferrari) kept creeping upwards and the premium examples most desired by collectors over-corrects.

 

What amaze me is that there are buyers at these actual prices even for a mondial 8 coupe which were the cheapest Ferrari ever I would say. That 8 that sold for $66000 on BAT is unbelievable. Are the Mondials finally getting loved for what they are like the 246 and the GT4.

 

I think FOMO is a very real thing; people with extra money look at these cars and think "if I don't buy one now, I'll never get the chance to own one".

While I had never really looked at a mondial until I started shopping a few months ago and realized that it met my needs, everything about this car screams 80s... and thats the decade (along with the 90s) where the car models closest to my heart are from (vs the 70s or 60s cars). As more and more adults get into their 40s and 50s and have the extra money to buy a cool car (or their dream car), they will start pushing up the "previously unloved cars". See also Porsche 912 pricing (esp for ones that aren't modified to look like Turbo/RS models)

 

The gap between persons who know the feel of driving a car with 4+ mechanical forward gears, two computer chips or less, and STYLE, all in a single automobile vs. those who don’t know that real, “I’m in control” feeling - is vast.

Drivers in newer cars - (more and more each year) are discovering something missing in their automotive lives; are remembering comments they heard years ago about how wonderful and joyous the driving experience WAS; and their instinct tells them there are far too many computer chips in control of their lives. [Notice that computer chips are actually currently controlling the new and nearly new car market - which is mentioned earlier in this conversation.]

Any Mondial in very good shape is the tonic many folks seek and word is getting out. SG


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Yes I understand your explanation. Driving a car as a need to got from point A to B is different than driving for a feeling. It makes sense. Being myself very close to 60 and having owned so many different cars I'm now attracted by Model T to feel the very begining of automobile and experience something different.

 

Particularly the Grigio ones!

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Agree. This is the car that will see some serious price spikes over the next 12-18 months. I will bet that you'll not be able to touch one for under $75K in two years. OK, laugh, look at the stupid high prices some people are asking for their 308's and there are pigeons..........I mean PEOPLE out there that will pay it!

 

Things are looking up which is good if your going to sell. Honestly, while it validates our choice to own a Mondial, it doesn’t really matter.


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Disagree unless other Ferrari's raise first. I bought one this month. 348 would have been 50 to 60k. I saw more than one testerossa under 90k. If I was paying near any of those I would have just gone with one of those. Instead I spent less than half.

 

Well, I think there will be a strong market for enthusiasts who are now priced out of certain 308's, 328's, 360's, etc. that will jump in and buy a Mondial solely due to affordability. This will at least get their feet wet and the market will tighten up.

 

I agree most with this assessment. As other vintage, gated Ferraris increase in value, it's going to pull up the values of the Mondial as well as buyers consider other options. Factor in a bit of inflation/cheap money, the FOMO syndrome, and a greater acceptance and appreciation of the Mondial (thanks Chris Harris!) and you have a perfect environment for increasing prices. However, I would point out that the two most recent sales on BaT are most likely outliers. The 8 is the rarest of the Mondials. The one that sold was in much better condition than 90% of the 8s that you see. The t that just sold was in great condition, had a recent service, and had <10K miles on it. They're definitely data points, but not fully representative of the overall Mondial market IMO.

2cam

 

Well stated. I believe a lot of people are thinking 'Shall I wait or shall I jump in'. Well, we have seen what waiting has done over the last 18 months and available cars are drying up. Hell, I'm in the process of jumping in as I do not want to do the 'wait and see what the economy does' thing any longer. I'm banking on prices going much higher, after all, we are not talking Camry's here and buyers have cash. Look back at prices several years in the Sale section here, good lord! Also, look at how many more 'Wanted' posts we are seeing, 21 alone in the last three weeks since November 11th!

 

georgeous.

 

About the thread’s subject: I believe the Mondial time has come. The Mondial series is the last of the Enzo approved Ferrari. Its styling (particularly the “t”) is intemporal, beautiful, and reminiscent of the legendary BB boxer.

As the owner of this Grigio one from day one, almost 32 years now, I have never experienced any negative reaction with that car, from people in Paris suburbs (Pozzi) to cyclists in Oregon and “people of color” in DC, they were all smiling, thumb up and supportive.

It’s also among the last “visceral” cars: the driver, the gated box, the self-locking differential, the steering wheel, tires and the road.

No electronic nannies. No automanual. No predictive GPS.

Yes, compared to many modern cars, it might be considered as “kind of slow” but it’s more fun to drive fast a slow car fast than the opposite.

A few years ago, one of my kids’ friends had a 430 Scuderia and I let him borrow the “t” for the day and he came back totally under enthused.


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I meant to write: he came back totally enthused

Sorry about that.

 

It was more funny written the other way.

 

I know I'm in the definite minority here, but I for one don't want to see the Mondials go up too much in price. In 2011 I bought an '88 911 for 17K which is now probably worth 2x to 3x that. Great if I ever sell it, but the spike in value has had a subtle effect on the community as more genuine enthusiasts are getting priced out and more of the BAT investor/collector/flipper mentality takes over. What I like about the Mondial is that it's not so valuable that you can't drive it and work on it yourself.

 

Counter argument: increased Mondial demand will lead to increased parts availability.
1) Virtually every part you need to rebuild a 68 camaro, 64.5 mustang, air cooled 911, etc. is readily available so even the roughest barn/field find can be rebuilt.
2) In comparison, try finding parts like an interior door handle for a Mondial 8/QV. Granted, they made a ton more Camaros, mustangs, and 911s than they ever made of the early Mondials but it would be nice to be able to source some of these more unique parts.

 

That is true, but people don't realise that to keep these cars complete and on the road, some have to be dismantled. There are many Mondial that are in such bad shape that restoration is near impossible and which serve as donors. I already made reproductions for several parts lik the rear glass, but people aren't aware of the big financial investment this requires. And 3D printing isn't the solution for everything, it often lacks the quality, so more expensive techniques are chosen like plastic injection. Anyhow, it's a very good sign that prices are rising, many parts will become available again, but many others won't and that's when a donor car is the best solution.

 

Well, as a follower of BaT, I would say collector cars are up about 20% on average versus pre-pandemic. Fed money printing, inflation, FOMO, stimulus money, it’s all part of it.

Yes, some really nice examples are being brought to market, happily I presume. I guess these people are all fools because these things only go up.

What I find most amusing about BaT when things trade at a high price are the “Well bought” and “This will be double in X years” comments. Again, the sellers must be fools.

 

I can agree with this, but with caveats. The Mondial is not fun around town. It is slow to warm up. The gearbox is not happy until it is warm. It is slow to accelerate low in the rpm range which on a 2 lane road is not the greatest attribute. There is not the car for a quick run around town.

On a highway or an empty backroad it is MORE fun than say my rt10 Viper. 65-70 MPH the car feels like you are flying. The engine is closer to its power band and can comfortably pass unless other cars decide to accelerate. The steering lightens up and the engine sings.

What has surprised me is how loud the interior of the Mondial is on the highway. 4-5k rpm on the highway is a lot of noise. Music and conversations are hard to hear. There is a good bit of road noise. I do not see this as something you want to take a 4-5 hour trip in and expect to do something when you arrive at your destination.

Since I am a recent buyer and this was not my first choice (86 Esprit HCI) my opinion post ownership is mixed. I like the car. I am going to spend a fair amount of money fixing it up. I wanted a project. I knew Ferrari charges more going into this.

What really hurts it imo for those wanting an F-car and willing to diy is a general lack of documentation. I have a stack of factory manuals for my viper. I can verify ever spec imaginable. Before putting it on a lift I can identify everything I need. I can search around because you do end up ordering from multiple places to get everything for it when available.

On the Mondial I have gotten various manuals, but it is not as clear cut. Rolling changes, using up whatever parts were left over, mean you need to put it on a lift to figure out what parts are on it. Being told to use parts of a manual for a different model because they never released one for the that part of the mondial is fun. Trying to find what all is needed for the steering rack rebuild and instead of a breakdown it is just listed as one part, helpful.

The parts cost can be high. The perceived longevity of some parts is not great. There are not a lot of aftermarket options to correct those issues. Model specific parts can be very problematic. There isn't as robust a community so while you find information on here as well as other ferrari forums some of that information is a decade plus old. Links to where people bought things or what exactly they bought are long since broken. It is a lot more complicated and does not help

None of this is insurmountable, but having spent over a decade collecting pinball machines these were issues that affected values. As knowledge becomes more readily available. As parts are more easily available. As aftermarket solutions become more widespread. The number of people wanting to own one rose causing values to skyrocket. The stuff that has limited parts/knowledge have not because it scares too many people away.

 

You may already know this from searching ancient threads, but I believe the Mondial steering rack parts interchange with those of the Pantera. There is a shop in Nevada that can supply pieces. www.panteraparts.com
www.panteraplace.com is another. From what I have read, the new parts replace the plastic bushing with a bronze unit, therefore extending reliability.

 

Great post! I'm sorry that your experience so far has been mixed, but I completely understand. A couple of comments regarding some of the issues that you've encountered:

• You shouldn't have any issues with acceleration around town. Mondials aren't Vipers by any means, but they don't have a problem merging and keeping up with modern traffic flows - even when cold. If you are having those issues, it probably needs some investigation - it sounds like the power could be down for some reason.
• Your 2nd gear balkiness while cold is a known issue. However, it can essentially be eliminated by using the right trans fluid.
• The cars do have a bit of road noise, but changing the tires on my car made a HUGE difference. I do think that a bit of acoustic matting under the carpets and in a few key areas could help to quiet it down further. I did this in a couple of my older 911s and it made a big difference.

As for the challenges around self-servicing the cars, you're right. The amount of concise, easy-to-use repair documentation available for the cars isn't as developed as cars such as your Viper or even older 911s. The amount of support for those cars is leaps beyond what's available for our cars. However, everything needed is out there - we just have to work harder to find it and bring it all together as opposed to other brands. Once you start diving into the car and see how everything is put together, compare it to parts diagrams/videos/how-tos/etc, it really starts to make more sense. Unfortunately, it isn't likely that it will ever be as easy as other cars. After all, the Mondials are hand-built, low-production (7K units across all models), 30 + year old Italian vehicles. The good news is that a lot of mechanical parts/systems are shared with the 308/328 so that subforum is also good to explore when help is needed. Parts prices CAN be more expensive, but there are often alternatives that are much less expensive if you don't need the pony on them. Again, it just takes a bit of research to find those. Honestly, I can't imagine that the experience with an 80s era Esprit would be any different than what you're seeing with your Mondial. At least it would have incredible handling...

Good luck with your Mondial journey. I personally love mine and feel that the juice is worth the squeeze.

2cam