360 Gearbox Oil Change / Filter Removal | FerrariChat

360 Gearbox Oil Change / Filter Removal

Discussion in '360/430' started by FerrariDublin, Jan 16, 2010.

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  1. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hi All, could anyone point me in the direction of a thread dealing with this issue? I've found a few but none that detail the entire process start to finish with instructions and photos as are available for a multitude of jobs like exhaust valves, alarm siren etc.

    In particular I'm interested in whether or not rear bumper removal is necessary for access to the gearbox oil filter. I've seen it suggested that it's not necessary but for the life of me I can't figure how on earth to get it out without removal!

    Also how best to access the banjo connections on the hose from the gearbox oil feed to the heat exchanger for the purpose of flushing out with compressed air?

    Thanks in anticipation!
     
  2. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
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    David
    Bad news for you, the rear bumper has to come out!
    You will have to put together some threads.
    First here is a thread where you can download the workshop manual for free or just buy it on eBay for $20. In the manual shows you step by step how to change the oil and the filter with pictures and everything.

    Second use the value threads here in how to take the rear bumper out,
    where to Jack your car and how to take out the gravel guards and everything.

    It is pretty simple if you have the manual and do some research in this forum.

    Good luck my friend!
     
    cavlino likes this.
  3. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
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    Greg
    Thanks.

    Many, many hours of work to get rear bumper off and back on. Extracted oil mesh filter and it was clean as a whistle! What a waste of time. What poor design too that one has to go to all that trouble to inspect a filter - crazy stuff! Not sure I'll bother with this filter next time I'm doing this job.

    Could not access the banjo bolt for the oil feed to the heat exchanger so I wasn't able to blow out the gear oil accumulated therein either.

    I wonder do they really carry out these two additional functions at an F-Workshop as part of a tranny oil change. Somehow I doubt it.

    Anyway job done.
     
  4. CyclingPeaks

    CyclingPeaks Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
    361
    Big Island, Virginia
    Full Name:
    Hunter Allen
    Any chance you took photos to document this? I am getting ready to do mine as well and would love to have some detailed instructions. Did you replace the plugs and washers with new ones? What oil did you use?
    I'll think I'll make the effort for the mesh filter just to make sure this time around, but like you probably won't mess with it each time.
    Thanks for any tips or advice you can give.

    Hunter
     
  5. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
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    David

    Get the manual man!
    About the oil you should look for a thread posted by Ray Johns, the best post about that topic.
    And get the manual!!!
     
  6. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
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    Greg
    #6 FerrariDublin, Jan 18, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
    Hi Allen, no, sorry I didn't document or photograph but I can give you a few tips and pointers alright.

    First up here's a couple of links to threads involving the removal of the bumper for exhaust installation.....

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57983

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18805

    It is also necessary to remove the central undertray. This is a bit tricky because when you jack up the car you put the jack through a hole in the undertray which then prevents removal! What you have to do is jack up the car, release all the bolts (about 18 or so) and then let the car down off the jacks in order to release the jacks from the holes in the tray. In the workshop manual (WSM) they suggest putting a block under the rear wheels which increases the clearance. Once you've cleared the jacks away from the holes in the undertray you should be able to slide the whole assembly out from under the car with relative ease.

    Next up you might want to check your existing gearbox oil level. If you have a low level it might indicate a leak that you'll also want to identify and fix before you proceed. The WSM says to idle the engine for about two minutes and then let it rest for five before you check the level. I'd recommend loosening off the filler cap first as it's going to get pretty hot down there within a that couple of minutes! Incidentally I found the easiest access point for the filler cap to be from the side of the car (with the gravel guard removed).

    Having determined your existing oil level your next job is to drain. The WSM suggests running "the engine propulsion system" until such time as the oil temperature comes up to normal operating temperature. I took this to mean run the engine and drivetrain. I had the car on axle stands at this point and the rear wheels off. I ran the engine at idle for maybe twenty minutes in forth gear. During this process both the ABS and ASR warnings came on. I have a suspicion that had I disabled ASR prior to running that it might not have thrown that error. There was a certain amount of chatter from the gearbox/diff during this process but once the ASR error was thrown up the chatter died away so I'd recommend disabling that in the first place. Regardless, once I took the car for a quick spin after the error lights all went out so it doesn't seem to have been a big issue.

    Once up to temperature you're now going to drain the oil. You'll have about 3.5 litres of pretty hot oil so make sure you have your catch can at the ready with sufficient capacity to catch all. I left it a good hour to drain while I nipped down to the local motor factors to pick up a couple of new crush washers for the filler cap and drain plug.

    The WSM recommends disconnecting the oil feed from the top of the diff to the heat exchanger and blowing out with compressed air. Even after taking off the bumper I found I couldn't access the bolt so decided to skip this procedure. Ultimately my box took 3.5 litres to re-fill (as against 3.7 from recollection in the WSM) so there was only about 200ml of oil that didn't drain out.

    Having removed the bumper as detailed in the posts above the mesh filter is reasonably easy to remove. Just go carefully and tease it out applying a little pressure on one side, then the other etc. Inspect mesh for damage - some have encountered small tears in the mesh. Assuming all well clean with a degreasing agent and reinstall.

    Remember to reinstall your drain plug before you attempt to re-fill the gear box. I believe the torque setting given the in WSM is not correct and that the threads on the brass plug can strip if you attempt to tighten it to the specified torque. My own plug took a 12 inch power bar to remove so I gave it a good old haul on the same bar when re-tightening. Not very scientific I know but if you've done work like this before you get a feel for what's right.

    In order to refill the gear box you'll need a funnel with maybe 20 inches of garden hose attached. Thankfully the aperture on the filler neck is pretty wide and a regular hose fits in nicely. Given that my catch can has a graduation for capacity on it and I knew my level was OK before I drained I knew pretty well how much oil I needed to add. I poured in all but about half a litre and waited five minutes for it to settle before I started the engine. I let it idle for two minutes as previously and then waited five before checking the level. I then added the last half litre and tested level again (cat getting very hot at this stage and the access is a bit tight to use gloves so watch you don't burn yourself!) Be sure to tighten up the filler cap after you take your last level check.

    After that it's just a case of reversing your dis-assembly procedures.

    Bumper went pack on pretty easily. I thought I might have issues getting the clearances right but no, it just lined up pretty easily for me and I just set everything loose and checked regularly as I went about tightening everything back up.

    The centre undertray is a bit difficult to re-install. I used a trolley jack to offer it up close and take most of the weight then just got one bolt started and worked my way from there.

    I used the heavily recommended Redline 75/90NS gear oil and didn't bother with the friction modifier. I've always experienced a little chatter from the diff when reversing out of the garage but I think I'll wait a wee while to see how I fare with this new oil before I make a decision whether or not to add.

    I didn't replace the drain plug mostly because the WSM didn't suggest it needed to be replaced so I hadn't ordered a replacement. I don't think I'd bother with the mesh filter again for maybe three years (unless i had cause to remove the bumper again for some other reason) as I reckon that if it was clear now (after 44k miles) it's not likely to accumulate much over the coming 12 months.

    I hope all this is of some use to you. It took me about eight hours start to finish including a trip to the motor factors and a break for lunch.

    The only special tools required (not that special really) were 12 and 14mm allen keys (hex head).

    Good luck!
     
    2002ForzaFerrari360 likes this.
  7. jenglemn

    jenglemn Rookie

    Nov 28, 2014
    21
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    Jon Engleman
    My 2000 360 Heat Exchanger failed. The consistency of my drained gearbox oil is Grunge. Mine seemed to have failed catastrophically, dumping the contents of the coolant into the gearbox. What solvents-cleansers should I use to get the gearbox cleaned up?
     
  8. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
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    Dino
    What I did was to use a hole saw to drill a hole in the tunnel, opposite the filter and cover with a rubber grommet. It is perfect and virtually invisible. But when it comes time to change the gearbox oil and clean the filter, it's a snap!
     
    Mimmo Blue likes this.
  9. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Dec 11, 2001
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    Dino
    That HE is junk. Just fill, run, drain, repeat...3-4X.
     
  10. DAVID SIEGEL

    DAVID SIEGEL Karting

    Jun 12, 2019
    72
    Could you tell me what size hole saw you used.

    Thanks
     
  11. freccia75

    freccia75 Rookie

    Feb 9, 2017
    15
    Switzerland
    I'm 360 Canuck likes this.
  12. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,911
    Ontario, The Real One in Canada
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    Lars!
    Sorry for the necro post, but this thread was one of the first google found on the topic, so might help others in the same situation.

    I decided to go ahead and do the gear oil change, minus pulling the screen so as to not have to pull the bumper etc. I had the presence of mind to start with the fill plug. I can’t get this to budge, even with an 18” breaker bar on it. Any tips?

    I fear my trusted mechanic may have over torqued it, as many have warned due to the incorrect factory specs. If he changed it all last service.
    Obviously there isn’t a lot of room in there to get a much bigger bar, torch etc. I haven’t tried but I’m not sure WD40 really does anything.
     
  13. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
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    Greg Calo
    with needed force you mention it is possible that the plug is crossthreaded!

    you should not need that much force to remove it.

    try using a hammer to tap on the wrench to see if that works
     
    E60 M5 and I'm 360 Canuck like this.
  14. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
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    Josh @jtcarprojects
    I longer breaker bar will help distribute a easy movement of torque to help loosen.
     
    I'm 360 Canuck likes this.
  15. Fcar tech

    Fcar tech Karting

    Oct 22, 2021
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    Always nearby
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    XXXX
    clean512 has it correct. It does take some effort to get it release..
    1/2" breaker bar and a long extension..
     
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  16. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
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    Josh @jtcarprojects
    Not my first rodeo. But yes it takes some leverage
     
  17. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    I don't understand the need for so much force.

    I have never had to use the indicated force to remove that drian.
     
  18. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,911
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    Lars!
    i agree, but it is what it is.
    For what it’s worth, I’m a 6ft 230 guy, and the car is up on a hoist so I’m able to put a fair amount of strength into it. And I am pushing counterclockwise on it :)
    I didn’t expect it to be so tight either, but here I am :(
    Maybe I will understand better when/if I’m able to crack it open,
     
  19. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    I do it from the ground and have no probs as you are experiencing

    I wonder if a previous change included Loctite on the threads!
     
    I'm 360 Canuck likes this.
  20. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
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  21. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
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    Lars!
    Yup, the 12mm Allen head screw on the side of the gear box that’s used to refill with oil.
     
  22. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    I just can't believe you need that much force

    Did you get it off yet?
     
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  23. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
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    Lars!
    Surprised me as well… maybe being so close to the catalytic converter has something to do with it….the engine oil bolts weren’t a problem.

    just cracked it open. Used a bunch of tips…I let some liquid wrench soak in overnight, heated the area with an electric heat gun (couldn’t get my propane torch to light …ugh), wrapped the hex socket in a little aluminum foil to tighten the fit, and whacked the breaker bar with a heavy hammer.

    so, thanks everyone!

    last question….oil on the gearbox dipstick looks impeccable…..like clear golden syrup. Should I still go through with the change, or save it till next year? Oil probably has 4000kms on it, about 3 years old.
     
  24. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    I would drain it and refill it with Redline 75W90NS

    Some have different options but I stick with Redline

    Too bad you did not pull the bumper and check the filter screen on the passenger side of the tranny
     
    I'm 360 Canuck likes this.
  25. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,911
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    Lars!
    Ya, I’ve got 3 bottles of the redline ready to pour in. Just seems like a waste with the existing oil looking so clean and pretty.
    For that same reason, I’m not worried about the filter screen,

    the engine oil was black but even that screen was clean.

    gong forward, I think due to my light use, I will do oil changes annually or biannually, do a check of the gear oil with each oil change, and leave the screen check for when I do the cam belts at 4-5 years (approx 8000kms/5000 miles). If I start tracking or something that increases wear, then I will revise.
     
    Archie-no2 likes this.

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