The Tesla Plaid Will Smoke Every Car Ferrari Makes for $150k

Trying to mainstream the phrase electric 'engine' doesn't seem to fit. The 'engines' are rather adapted motors and electric motor technology from many industrial applications. Those industries are quite content with the present terminology. Putting an electric motor in a car does not make it an 'engine'. I did not replace the defroster 'engine' in my freezer last week.

 

Not talking plaid against 535 BMW, he owns the Model S dual motor, I would venture a guess that the plaid has a better suspension then the 535 , ??

Thank you

 

These are some of the same people that tell us nothing is wrong with automatic paddle shifters.

 

I've got a Tesla S Plaid as well. I traded in my 2017 S P100D for it, and also still have a 2014 S 85. Suffice it to say, I like the car. I'll answer your questions mostly with respect to the 2017 and 2014 as my Plaid is still brand new.

1) The battery is almost 8 years on the 2014. Its only got 70k miles on it, as my wife isn't commuting any more thanks to Covid. The 2017 had 50k miles on it.
2) Most of the time I don't charge from 0-100%. I'll plug it in once a week or so depending on usage and how low it gets. It only takes two seconds to plug in so I'll frequently plug it in when it gets below 50%. I'd guess the 2014 has been plugged in maybe 500 times?
3) I've drained both cars close to zero miles remaining, maybe 3-4? Not ideal, but there are so many chargers around now, and the energy usage is very predictable so its not a big deal.
4) Most usage is from 90% to ~40%? Something like that, it varies alot. I'll do 100%-10% from time to time if the need arises.
5) The 2014 is at about 92% of its original capacity.
6) My wife had a short commute, so most of the 2014's miles were from road trips. My commute is about 50 miles a day so the 2017's miles were mostly from commuting.

On the Model S, battery degradation isn't really an issue. In general you can expect 1-2% capacity loss per year/12k miles. That means after 10 years you'll be looking at 85%ish of the original capacity. A new model S has a ~400 mile range, so after 10 years you'd be looking at 340 miles of range. Even after 20 years you'd still be looking at almost 300 miles of range, which is still plenty.

 

Thank you for the response. Those are great numbers. Getting real world numbers about actual public usage is important so that we can see a correlation of how we would use a vehicle and what to expect based upon another’s similar usage. I can definitely see this as a proper commuter then. From your response and the previous, I think my battery capacity worries are not warranted since the degradation is not substantial enough to affect a 10 year operational timeframe.

In regards to a personal feeling about the technology, Do you think they are worth it? (Financially and emotionally)

 

For a sedan (or SUV) I 100% think they are worth it. There really is no comparison. Tesla as a company has alot of issues (unrelated to EV technology) and that caused me to reconsider getting my Plaid. I went and drove a M5 and a RS6, and the Tesla is just so much better of a car. All of the percieved issues with an EV (range, charging, batteries) just generally aren't an issue in practice. On the flip side most folks are ignoring the downsides of gas cars, like maintenance and weekly fill-ups at gas stations.

Compared to a Ferrari though, it also isn't a comparison. A Ferrari is just a completely different beast (ignoring any possible nonsense like a Ferrari SUV). Of course it shouldn't be either. Nobody should be comparing a $130k 7-seat family sedan with a $400k mid engine two seater. The fact that its even being discussed shows how good the Tesla is. If/when the Tesla roadster or the Ferrari EV launches then you can compare them. I think its possible to make a sports car as an EV, but its going to be tough to deal with the weight of the battery.

 

I think the real threat from cheap fast e-cars comes from the fact that way too many exotic car drivers don't actually drive their cars very much. What are the biggest deterrents to buying an e-car? Ans: Range & Recharge Times. I love driving our 488 as often and as far as I can, but too many of us don't. This means that range and recharge times are not very important to someone who only drives his car for an hour, 10 or so times a year. If some manufacturer(s) builds a "relatively cheap" e-car with styling, interior and handling comparable to our Ferraris, then the only thing they lose is the sweet sound of our engines. That "could" hurt Ferrari (McLaren, Lambo, etc.). Thankfully, I (and most of you) think that a Ferrari is more than just the sum of its parts. Ferrari will certainly need to evolve with the times, and e-Ferraris are inevitable, but I believe an e-Ferrari will still be more desirable than the also-rans regardless of 0-60, 1/4 mile or Nürburgring times. I can't imagine those metrics alone trumping the shear delight in taking a Prancing Horse out of the stable.

 

Smoke indeed!!!

Tesla Plaid Brakes Catch On Fire After Several Stops From 100 MPH

This stress test proves that the Model S Plaid's stock brakes are not suitable for track driving.

Dec 06, 2021 at 11:48am ET


By: Dan Mihalascu




The Tesla Model S Plaid is unmatched among volume production cars when it comes to acceleration, but not the same thing can be said about its braking system.

Now, don’t get us wrong, the stock brakes work fine under normal driving conditions, but when performance driving is involved, they tend to experience fading. So how much is too much for the Model S Plaid’s brakes?

The guys from the PlaidAF YouTube channel wanted to find out and subjected their Model S Plaid to some intense braking tests. Before delving into those, you should know the car was going to receive a carbon ceramic Big Brake Kit Upgrade from Unplugged Performance, so it didn’t really matter whether the stock brakes got completely destroyed in the process.

The plan was to do ten 100 mph–0 mph runs to see how the stock brakes behave when subjected to back-to-back action. When they started the tests, though, they decided to brake only until about 20 mph; mind you, the timer on the screen measures the 100–30 mph time for consistency.

After some normal road driving, one of the guys stepped out of the vehicle and measured the temperature of the rotor at 327 degrees Fahrenheit (164 degrees Celsius). From that point on, he started a stopwatch to see how long it takes for that rotor to cool down to about 100 degrees Fahrenheit (37.7 Celsius) after completing all ten stop tests.

So how did the experiment go? Well, after the third run, the brakes started smelling bad, which was not a good sign. After the fifth, a warning popped up in the
Tesla's dash indicating that the brake temperature was high.

The guys carried on with the test and decided to stop after the eighth run because the smell became too strong. Much to their surprise, they saw flames in one of the rotors and measured its temperature at 950 degrees Fahrenheit (510 degrees Celsius). No wonder Tesla is now offering a $20,000 Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit option.

 

An interesting and deliberately provocative quote, but there is a more subtle point here

People will deride this and talk about the visceral essence of a Ferrari, that track speed is more important than straight line acceleration and the classical design beauty of a 250 GTO or a LaFerrari are more important.

But I wonder how great the Ferrari’s of the past would be if they hadn’t won races. The essence of the brand is built on speed and winning races and there is a fantastic heritage of this stretching back for about 90 years. The brand and the premium paid for the cars is based on this heritage.

To survive Ferrari has to reinvent itself for the new era and continue to build its brand. Meanwhile Tesla and many other competitors will continue to develop better and better cars to compete.

I love both classic and modern Ferrari’s and currently run a modern one. In future I would be happy to own both, a classic one for the joy of the visceral past and a modern one for the joy of Ferrari’s interpretation of the technological future.

 

Run the average of a 10-lap session for each and get back to us.
What the heck - make it a 5-lap session.

 

The thread title does not say merely “beat”; it says “smoke.” That assertion was refuted way back in post #71 courtesy of Motortrend, yet said refutation was ignored.

 

Funny you said "smoke"!!

 

Now do one for the existing infrastructure -- i.e. gas stations -- the same infrastructure that won't require hundreds of billions if not trillions plus decades to complete.

 

I have been driving the Q50 over the PV Peninsula , way late left foot braking, and using the 7 speed semi automatic gearbox. and let me tell you, Ive made myself believe Im on a track ! lol . This car is a great runner , I cant wait until I get the 400 hP tune. Just like in CT, Im driving this car like a pro ! What more can you ask for, 300 HP Twin Turbo, fantastic interior, triple screen display, heated steering wheel and seats .Audio system is also high end. I did notice, that with my aggressive driving, the brakes are getting a little cooked, so Im going to upgrade the brakes before I do anything, for normal driving, the brakes are fine, I dont think most car makers , when It comes to Japanese 4 door sedans,consider they will be driven really fast or braking very hard constantly over several minutes at a time. I would venture a guess that BMWs do not have a problem with brakes, no matter how hard they are driven . I wish my 328 was as fast.

Thank you

 

If one wants to get serious about futurism, one has to look further out on the timeline. The future of EV is self-driving. Self-driving will lead to lack of ownership. A lack of ownership will lead to lack of ability to travel freely and independently for the masses, which opposes the automotive ethos made virtually synonymous with American culture several generations ago.

These are odd attributes to cheer or otherwise simply go along with by a group of auto enthusiasts.

 

Beat, destroy, waste, use whatever word you want.

A Tesla will smoke any stock Ferrari that is $150,000 or less.

I mean, we're talking used market right?

What are we talking about? F360, F430, 458?

I mean, 0-60, 1/4 is not even a contest. Add even the new 296 to that list.

The Plaid is faster than the F458 on Nurburgring.

 

What are you talking about? The whole point of Electric is to do it at one's home. In some areas that don't get sun, it's a problem For the 3 most populous states, it's just a matter of time. That infrusture in the US is LIVE NOW! I made many road trips in Teslas, never had an issue at a supercharger.

You seriously are this behind the times?

You mention dollars (not me) - Solar saves you money in long-term in sunny areas. This is just the fact today.

 

Assuming you can get a 458 for $150,000

yes, a Plaid will smoke it in a stoplight. That's just fact.

Same driver, Randy Pobst - 458 vs Plaid at Laguna (7 seconds faster man) That's smoking it.

My God.

I would still choose the 458, but I'm not going to lie about reality just because I prefer Ferrari.

...this is exactly why some Ferrari owners get a bad name.

 

Well, that is the reality of a car that's on a 10-year-old platform. Here's the thing, you're assuming most people buy a 7 seat Tesla to 'Track' - c'mon now.
When it comes time for a real sports car company like Ferrari or Porsche to make an electric "sports" car, it can do the whole session, like this.

 

I don't think Ferrari owners are in the best position to mention cars catching fire....

 

Nobody is saying DCTs are 'better' objectively. The only similar claim would be saying they are slower.

A big difference between saying DCT/Paddle shifters are subjectively worse in speed, like say Formula 1?

I prefer to stick and ICE. I would be ashamed though if I were to claim DCTs were not faster on the track than a stick. That is after all the original post's premise. I mean, I guess Scuderia Ferrari can leave f1 because they refuse paddles.

 

Ross, we are kindred spirits and you took the words right out of my mouth.

Well said.

 

The supposedly dispassionate, cold hard reality presented in support of Tesla/EV is actually subjective and arbitrary in nature. I have four cars and couldn’t tell you any of their Nürburgring lap times because that metric doesn’t matter to me; therefore, no one can make me accept that some other car faster by that metric makes it “better” than all these cars, let alone prove the superiority of an entire propulsion system. What is “better” is subjective. Even how “better” is determined is subjective.

In another religiously fanatical Tesla/EV-is-the-greatest-and/or-the-future thread many months ago, I turned Paul’s logic back onto his argument to demonstrate the factual win the Dodge Hellcat was in comparison to the Tesla Plaid. But this/Paul’s logical form is fundamentally flawed because it confuses facts with values, and to paraphrase what was said then to punctuate the point: “My values don’t care about your facts.”

 

Per Motortrend, the difference was 0.03 seconds between an SF90 and Plaid to 60. Does that constitute "smoke, destroy, or waste" in your book? Your answer matters. "Beat", technically yes, but that's such a minuscule difference as to be explained by calibration error alone, not to mention a host of other margin of error factors.