Clause 15.3 and why Masi broke the rules

I'm quite pleased Max won under these circumstances (superior driving over the course of a full season, marred only by Mercedes' multiple desperate attempts to take him out when they couldn't beat him).

It exposes the Hamilton fans for what they truly are, which isn't all that different from what Hamilton himself is.

 

The rules are that the title is decided on the number of points scored, not the number of GP wins.

There were years when the WDC had less wins that his followers.

On top of my head I will say 1958, where Hawthorn was champ with 1 win, and Moss finished second with ... 4 wins !

In 1982, the year Keke Rosberg won the title, I remember he had only 1 win, and I'm pretty sure some others had more.

 

It goes without saying the level of scrutiny would be really exceptionally high on this race, and we can be pretty sure nobody wanted the title battle ending up in the court room, so I have no doubt Merc will have been treated nicely by the FIA to leave it, not that anyone will ever know about it.

So Masi sending out mixed messages and changing the rules, just for the sake of spicing up the end of the race, does not seem to me to fit the bill in the wording of sporting fairness IMO.

Had the roles been reversed and Hamilton had been in Max's position and won it, all the Hamilton haters would be harking a completely different xmas tune, that's a cert.

The trouble is the hate runs so deep with some, they would cheer anybody or anything that beats Hamilton, consequently folk can rule out any reasonable argument from said folk, that's the sad part.

I can understand that no one would have wanted a race finish under a SC however the race was not finished under any of the rules that anyone was aware of, regardless of being right or wrong, hence all this conflict.

And that is not taking into account the onerous matter of Masi sending out mixed signals, as in no backmarkers to pass the SC then changing his mind because Horner blew his ear drums out whining.

Masi has alot to answer for, on the other hand some may argue it keeps F1 in the spot light, for the wrong reasons IMO Merry Xmas

 

Good for you, enjoy whatever makes you feel happy.

 

Masi is clearly in the calculations. So I don't know what you're complaining about.

 

Yeah he calculated it at the right time.

 

He even calculated in the Latifi crash.

I'd ask you to look at the season objectively and if you think that FIA did their best for Lewis not to win another title, but I seriously doubt you're capable of alternative thought. Certainly you have not demonstrated such skills.

 

I didn't say FIA did their best for Lewis not to win another title. Maybe you are thinking of some one else. My stance is Masi broke the SC rules which decided the 2021 WDC.

 

Why did the race at Abu Dhabi "decide the 2021 WDC" more than, say, Silverstone 2021?

 

Whilst I don’t subscribe to any conspiracy theories, max has definitely had a very favourable treatment from the stewards. Some examples:

1. He made aggressive and questionable moves on Lewis in the following races and received no penalty:

• imola
• Spain
• Monza (early race before their collision)
• Saudi Arabia (multiple times)
• Brazil (this was super clear cut penalty)

2. Crashed Lewis out in monza and only got a 3 place grid penalty which he didn’t serve anyway. Meanwhile lewis gets a 10 second timed penalty for silverstone and gets sent to the back of the grid for 0.1 of a millimetre out on one side of his rear wing.

3.Brake checked Lewis in Saudi and received no penalty (until after the race he got a 10 second penalty which had absolutely no consequence). Vettel got a 10 second stop go when he pulled this in baku few years back.

4. Saudi was red flagged just after the Mercs had changed tyres under the SC. This handed max a huge advantage. Quite controversial to go SC then red flag in this manner. Questionable stewarding.

5. Perez got a ten second timed penalty for overtaking under the SC in imola. Max does this in Abu Dhabi to Lewis - no penalty (albeit the pass was marginal).

6. Spa is awarded half points despite no laps raced. Benefits max the most.

7. And of course the biggest of all, Abu Dhabi farce where the stewards made up the rules to hand max the title.

That’s just off the top of my head but it’s quite clear the stewards and FIA have one set of rules for max and another set for everyone else. I don’t think they were necessarily trying to favour him. They just didn’t want to get involved in the championship fight and thus barely ever penalised him, and when they made questionable stewarding decisions he just happened to always be the benefactor.

 

I certainly think that Max has received favorable treatment by the FIA in 2021 not because they were against Lewis but because it was in the best interest of the sport to have a season long battle. Nothing new it has happened like this forever where the FIA favors the relative under dog. I believe that if the tables were turned and Max had 7 championships and Lewis none that the favoritism would go Lewis’ way.

 

Favoritism towards anyone = Not true/fair/equal sporting competition!
That's the issue, F1 has decided to be like WWE! Entertainment, not real true sport!

 

Since the fact recognized by the FIA, Race Stewards, and Race Control unanimously agree and confirm that no rules were broken I suggest to the moderation that this thread title be adjusted to reflect this factual reality.

 

Imola: Max was ahead at the braking zone on the racing line. Lewis tried to drive into a gap that was always going to disappear.
Barcelona: they didn't touch,. neither went off track. What's the problem again?
Monza: See Imola.
Saudi arabia: Plenty of penalties for max
Brazil: Both went off.

2) Erm....they both crashed, he still got a penalty. So not sure how the stewards are helping him there? Silverstone was a light penalty all things considered, but a penalty none the less...are you saying it was a harsh penalty? Brazil was an obvious breach of technical regulations

3) He didn't brake check Lewis. Watch the whole ****ing thing. He gave Lewis so much opportunity to pass, but he didn't want to pass him there (he even said so himself). Still got a penalty.

4) This has happened so many times in the past I can't be bothered to count it.

5) Like you say yourself, the overtake was marginal. And like explained elsewhere, an "overtake" (literally an inch of his front wing) in a case like this never gets investigated, since no advantage is held anyways

6) 4 laps done as far as I can tell.

7) 15.3 once again. And somehow the stewards ignored their own rules where Lewis got a huge advantage on lap 1, something they penalized Max for 1 race previous, who got a tiny advantage then.

 

The reason max never got penalties is because Lewis avoided the inevitable collisions. Stewards are meant to punish the action, not the consequence so they really ****ed up not penalising max.


All of those driving moves by verstappen follow the same pattern. A dive bomb on the inside and then because he’s carrying so much speed he doesn’t have the ability to turn sufficiently to give the other car - that is significantly alongside - racing room. Instances like Brazil he’s going far too fast in a desperate attempt to fight for a position he’s already lost, so he ignores the braking zone, brakes way too late and forces both cars off track. In Abu Dhabi he kept it on the track right at the very edge but he forced Lewis off - lewis had to swerve to avoid a collision. Silverstone is actually much the same, this time it’s Lewis dive bombing up the inside but Lewis still left max over half the track, but max stayed completely on his line without moving at all and they collided.


Here is some video analysis by Karun Which is a good summation of Max’s dive bomb technique. If Lewis adopted maxs attitude and refused to yield both cars would’ve dnfed or collided 6-7 times this season with max at fault for all but silverstone.


Part 1 of Karun’s analysis: https://streamable.com/u9t3mm


Part 2 of Karun’s analysis: https://streamable.com/d67kzs



To your specific points:

1. Max was deemed at fault for a collision that took his opponent out the race. The penalty given was less harsh than what Lewis got in silverstone . Unfair and inconsistent. Regarding hamiltons rear wing discrepancy, yes it was a technical infringement but the FIA also seized it and gave merc no opportunity to prove it was a defect that occurred on track. When red bull had the Flexi wing for a couple races there the FIA gave them plenty of time to fix it.
2. Incorrect. Read the stewards report. Max applied approx 2.9 g force of brake pressure - straight from the telemetry. Clear cut evidence of a brake test. Why the light and inconsequential penalty?
3. Find one then.
4. No advantage was held by 0.1mm of hamiltons rear wing being open but he got sent to the back of the grid. If the precedent is a 10 second penalty for a pass under the sc it’s only fair max should get one too.
5. Did you not watch the “race”? It was a procession under the SC, at no point during those laps were cars racing or allowed to overtake.
6. Clearly you didn’t read my OP regarding 15.3 lol. In terms of lap 1, only reason Lewis went off track is max forced him there. If he carried on turning into the corner when max dive bombed him they would’ve crashed.

 

You need to take a lesson in racing. That's how overtaking works. Lewis trying to force himself to be there is him grasping at straws.

1) your opinion that it was less harsh. Doesn't matter if Merc could try and prove that it was ''damaged'' on track, point is that it didn't pass the test. Flexi wing argument is absolutely irrelevant here. It passed all the tests. Are you sure you're a lawyer?
2) AFTER Max gave lewis forever to pass. There was a million miles of room to pass and lewis refused. At the same time that Max braked even more, Lewis accelerated. Lewis didn't want to pass there.
3) Hungarian GP.
4) irrelevant if 0.1mm. Tech regulation breach, you're comparing penalties for 2 entirely different things. Did you see Perez Pass vs Max ''pass''? Perez overtook 2 cars and stayed ahead of them. Max FW was ahead of Lewis (from the angle that we could see) for about 2 seconds. This is like arguing for penalties between rape and speeding.
5) Irrelevant once again. The laps where counted towards the overall. Anything more than 2 laps and less than 75% distance = half points
6) I did read it, just disagreed with your take on it. Regarding lap 1, the exact same reasoning can be held with Max the race previous, Lewis forced him there, yet Max had to give the place up, and after he did, he got an additional 5 second penalty, and then another 10 seconds for the collision that happened later. Furthermore, Lewis could've avoided cutting the track by simply braking longer and cutting in behind Max, but then he would've lost a position.

 

So Lewis trying to be up the inside at silverstone is him grasping at straws but the 6-7 instances of max doing even worse (I.e not braking and dive bombing up the inside but taking even more of the track) is ok? Take the blinkers off mate. You’re bias.

1. Flexi wing was banned. Google it. My point is red bull ran an illegal rear wing and got given 3 races to rectify it. Mercedes get sent to the back of the grid for 0.1 of a mm on one side of a wing. See the bias? Hopefully you’re getting it now…

2. Dude I’ve given you the evidence. Stop trying to argue a losing point. Max braked, end of. You say Lewis didn’t want to pass yet accelerated, those 2 points contradict eachother lol.

3. Different context. Debris kept falling off cars necessitating a red flag. In Saudi nothing changed at all but they decided 4 laps later to red flag the race. That’s just incompetence as opposed to reacting to a changing situation in Hungary.

4. See above point with Flexi wing. Deemed illegal. Technical breach. Given 3 races. Merc get no leeway and even get it confiscated so they can’t prove anything. I recall red bull getting to fix another wing issue in qualy with tape. Re the overtake, rape and speeding is the wrong analogy because they are the same offence. Both are rape. If you want to be crude the correct analogy would be in one rape you’re putting just the tip in and the other the entire thing. Still rape.

5. completely missed my point but ok.

6. sure you can disagree but I doubt you have any sound arguments lol. How are Saudi and Abu Dhabi similar lol? Don’t make me laugh. Lewis didn’t force max anywhere mate. Lewis is a car length ahead in Saudi and turning in. Max has already lost the place so decides not to brake (as usual) locks up and forces himself up the inside where there is no space and Hamilton is already turning in. Once again in Abu Dhabi, Lewis is ahead, max decides not to brake and then goes to the edge of the track. Exactly like rosberg in Austria 2016 where he got penalised for it. In Abu Dhabi Lewis didn’t turn in becsuse he knew max wanted a collision to win the championship.

tbh I don’t know why I bother, I’ve had a look at your post history and you just irrationally hate on Hamilton and have no logic to your arguments at all. You were even suggesting the fia were on Mercedes’ side in some posts when I’ve just given you a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

 

Absolutely accurate!
The juvenile kindergarten kids (Max fanBOYS) just keep spewing nonsense....
Truly not worth even communicating with!

 

1) Now I know you're not a lawyer. If you can't see the difference between a change in technical regulations going into affect X races from whenever, to ''running an illegal wing'' (that passed every single test that was there at the time), I can't help you.

2) yes? Did Max give ample time to let lewis pass yes or no?

3) after inspection, the damage to the barriers deemed Red Flag was necessary. You asked for a race with SC that turned into RF, I've given it to you. Plenty more where those came from btw.

4) Again you fixate on a point you don't understand the meaning off.

5) There is no point to be missed. I don't care if you think the race was a farce, the laps where counted towards the race, so a race was held. Remove that race if you like, Max is still champion.

6) Lewis did force Max wide. Max came back on track ahead of Lewis, marginally. In Abu Dhabi, Max lunged on the inside, stayed on track. Lewis decided to accelerate and get a huge advantage. Max got a penalty in the first instance for "leaving the track and gaining an advantage". Lewis somehow avoids a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Even the commentators that suck up to Lewis all day long couldn't understand why no penalty was given. I see you're also now Lewis' personal mind reader.

PS are you sure that you're a lawyer? You can not even distinguish between a technical breach vs technical regulation change set several races into the future. You've not given a mountain of evidence, you gave your opinion on most points with the exception of 1) that the FIA found Max guilty for braking at 2.9g. I wouldn't call that a mountain of evidence.

 

Spot on especially the last bit, as I said the hate runs deep, it is a seemingly futile exercise to have rational counter points with such, and that is a shame.

 

Et tu Krafty, Et tu.

 

Mercedes and Lewis wanted to walk home with 5 laps remaining without any threat, even though a safety car was deployed, which means the pack would tighten up. Plain and simple.

 

Here's a fun fact: If Hamilton didn't choke in Baku, he would have been the 2021 Champion.

 

TL;DR but… yawn.

HAM LOST! Give it up and… Merry Christmas!

Here’s to reading about HAM retirement soon.