True Cost Of Ownership - Aircraft

I’ve never met a private owner who truly tracks costs to include: lost investment potential on acquisition and fixed costs, hangar, insurance, engine overhaul reserve, amortizing maintenance (especially upgrades like panels and ADSB), valuing their time to manage the asset and deal with increased mx downtime compared to commercial operations, cleaning supplies, hangar utilities, tools, huge delays during overhaul periods compared to commercial operations, etc

I’m all for pride of ownership, but purchasing a plane is hardly ever a financial decision and I don’t get why people say otherwise. Unless….. the owner is flying A LOT, and has a relationship with local A&P/avionics shop to skip lines/skip mx delays. Jets can make sense with depreciation benefits and when they’re added to a charter operation but GA piston planes are atrociously expensive.

Anyone have thorough financial tracking of a privately owned small piston plane?


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This is likely to remove a significant amount of the pleasure derived from said ownership.......

 

Walk out the backdoor of my house 50 ft to my hangar, fly non-stop to Reno in under 4 hrs. Returning land and taxi 2 minutes to my hangar and then walk 50 ft to my house. PRICELESS.

Walk out the backdoor of my house 50 ft to my hangar, fly 1 hr to the lake house in N. Central WA (5 hr drive), land on the lake and park on the beach. PRICELESS.

 

This went off topic quickly lol.

I’m trying to get accurate cost/hr figures. Now with Jcurry’s comment, add in construction of hangar, runway upkeep, not farming the runway (assuming it’s grass/agriculture), taxes, utilities, maintenance of hangar, runway registration fees, FAA’s/DOT’s right to inspect private property/runway, lost investment potential on those costs, etc rolled into the hourly operating costs of the plane.

This analysis will likely conclude that a C172 can cost $500-1,500+/hr, meaning, charter or fractional jet ownership would be the same cost without the headache and ties of private piston ownership. But again, pride of ownership and the freedoms of a GA plane is “priceless,” but surely we can be analytical and track a cost of that convenience.

Every week I hear complete morons say, “my C172 costs $60/hr.” I’m just wondering if there is anyone out there who actually accurately (and honestly for themselves) calculates cost of ownership and operations.

I don’t track costs of my Ferrari’s but I also never claim they save me money (which is a common claim GA owners make).


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Not off topic at all, as how do you value the price of the intangibles. They are literally 'priceless'. Throughout the ownership of three airplanes, the first (and last) for over 25 yrs, I knew damn well that it would be 'cheaper' to rent by the hour. It made no sense to track tangible costs. I did try to keep those costs at a minimum (own maintenance), but never tracked them.

 

Jake- YGTBSM. Some people have accountants for that kind of stuff, but....

 

That’s the point of me starting this thread; if anyone actually accurately tracks costs. Not excuses as to why people don’t.

You can absolutely track the costs of “intangibles” like lost investment potential, cash tied up in assets that depreciate in recessions and when cash on hand can easily be multiplied, or used to pay the mortgage if one lost their job, insurance, mx and overhaul reserves, property taxes, etc. Tangibles such as hangar, aircraft, parts reserves, etc can easily be tracked too.

You’re saying you do not, and that’s fine. You’re a hobbyist and therefore don’t care what the costs are. Some people may use small piston planes for business purposes and track the operating costs accurately to assess the opportunity costs, cost savings, time savings, etc. I have a dollar amount of my work time and pleasure time to assess costs when determining to fly private, charter, or airlines.

This is meant to be educational and not argumentative as to why GA planes may or may not be financially practical. I’ve been clear that pride of ownership and convenience may trump costs but the point is to get accurate operating costs. I’ve had friends buy planes to save money and instantly regret it (plus pissed off wives) because no one out there seems to accurately track and share that information on true operating costs.


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I doubt people need accountants to make an elementary spreadsheet tracking what I described.

The point of this thread is asking if anyone actually tracks true costs of ownership and operations.

If you do not, that’s fine. Somewhere out there is someone who does.

Ignorance is bliss. In this case it seems that the GA community is intentionally, and admittedly, ignorant to remain blissful. Again, I agreed that pride of ownership and convenience (when the plane isn’t broke) can justify costs, even if $500-1,500/hr. I’m not insulting private ownership. I’m asking if there is anyone who actually accurately tracks costs… Idk why guys have to jump in like a brick wall to a educational conversation and discredit the question.


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There are many reasons to buy a plane, from the love of flying to the fantasy of owning one.

From a financial point of view, I would not think they ever pencil out. It would have to be a very specific set of instances and closely tied to the money earned per working hour.

I have a number of friends that have them, and some have jets. When costs come up in a conversation, usually from someone thinking of buying one, the plane owner gets that constipated look on their face.

 

I have never figured the costs of my Citabria, and I can't imagine why I would want to. It costs less than some of my cars to operate, though!

 

No /thread

 

Yea, this thread is exactly that. I attempted to learn actual operating costs and people came out like a brick wall attempting to end any rationale productive educational conversation about costs.

Essentially they’re saying to ignore all costs because of the passion. Some people may not have that expendable income to be so care free and some people may want to budget regardless.


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A friend tells me hers is ~2k$/hr for a Citation

 

You don’t speak for everyone.



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Your best bet would be to talk to a flight achool or flight club about their accounting. Even then you're not going to get opportunity costs etc.

 

Don't you already know? I thought you owned several airplanes already?

 

Yea, but their cost model is totally different. They’re flying 50-150 hours/month. Internal maintenance. Reduced maintenance downtime. They do 100 hrs which adds costs, but their extensive monthly hours off sets many fixed costs that private owners eat.


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They will have more data than an individual owner, so for that data point alone I would talk to them.

 

Speaking bluntly, this market is driven by the Fortune 500 types who aren't spending their own money. It is a huge ego trip. A to B, Hey wanna play golf? B to A, Sure. A to B, meet me at the hanger, we'll fly to Scotland.

 

The doodle guy, minus the hot chicks, just covered this.

How much Does it cost to own an Airplane? - YouTube

 

Not GA piston planes. You’re thinking TBMs, King Airs, jets, etc.

I’m trying to find true costs if ownership and operations of a GA piston plane from actual owners. Like little 4 seat Cessnas and Pipers and such. Most of these owners fly on expired flight reviews, expired medicals, illegally do maintenance, use drive by annuals, etc because costs are so high. So by honestly sharing costs with the community it may save people from getting into something they can’t afford.

Also, flying private jets isn’t as bad as you may think. You can do a fractional ownership deal on a $3M jet (make sure it’s a legit pt 135), 6 owners, depreciation/tax benefits as an owner, and fly private $3,000-5,000/hr (depending on plane) divided by 5-8 passengers. The majority of private jet travel is for business purposes paired with depreciation and tax incentives with the time savings makes it cost effective.

Go to a mid size regional airport; you’ll be shocked at all the private jet traffic and they’re usually businessmen going to local production facilities and warehouses and distribution centers that surround airports.


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More than “several” but under a totally different model than private ownership.




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I watched that. Not very accurate. His insurance costs and maintenance estimates were waaaay low. His acquisition cost was way off too.

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/206943839/1968-cessna-172-skyhawk-piston-single-aircraft

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/210247727/1977-cessna-r172-hawk-xp-piston-single-aircraft

My quick math (I’m not a private owner):

$150,000 aircraft (1,000 hrs TBO, 8,000 airframe tt, 1970s aircraft)
10 year loan at 4.5%, 15% down, and we will assume no depreciation of the aircraft

60 hours/yr or 5 hours/mo. This is high actual usage but private owners like to think they will fly 300 hrs/yr.

Costs:
$32,000 interest / 10 years = $3,200/yr in interest = $54/hr
$150,000 (asset/loan) + $32,000 (interest) = $182,000 lost investment potential. (We should add the loan and interest to total lost investment potential because it’s debt that can leveraged for the market, real estate, and business and it’s on top of $3,200/yr money out for interest because lost investment potential would be money gained on that $3,200). $182,000 x 10%/yr = $18,200/yr lost investment gains = $303/hr
$6,000/yr for hangar = $100/hr
$5,000/yr for aircraft and pilot liability insurance = $84/hr
$2,000/yr for hangar insurance = $33/hr
$38/hr for engine overhaul reserve ($45,000 / 1,200 hrs (1,000 hrs to 2,200 hrs))
$2,500 annual (yes, base annuals are $1,200-1,500 but real A&P/IAs always find things to fix because it’s their liability when they release the plane) = $42/hr
$60/hr misc maintenance ($3,600/yr assuming 60 hours/year or 5 hours/month of usage. This is quite low if the owner is using an actual A&P shop and not doing maintenance themselves illegally then having a A&P buddy sign it off. Worst thing for a plane is for it to sit unused. Items break just sitting)
$46/hr fuel ($5.8/g x 8gph)
$10/hr oil

I loosely see $770/hr. I’m sure I’m missing some things and over estimating on others. Knowing aviation……… I’d assume and plan on that my estimate is low.

I’m assuming this plane has ADSB already and the owner doesn’t want to put money aside for avionics upgrades.

This doesn’t include ramp and hangar fees for overnights. HOA fees and runway repair costs for airport communities. Inflated home price for airport communities, plus increased taxes on that inflated home price. Private runway taxes, upkeep, and lost agricultural profit. Hangar maintenance and build cost if private owned. Tools, parts reserves, valuing lost usage time due to increased maintenance downtime of private ownership, etc.

Jeez, the list is endless. That’s why it would be interesting to see if there are any GA small piston owners actually thoroughly track costs.





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I own a Cessna 310Q. Our association publishes a magazine and usually once a year, there is an article about “what does it cost to own a xxx”. They do this for all the twin Cessnas like 310s, 340s, 421s, etc. Very informative and it gives you an idea of what to expect. You cannot ultimately figure that your cost will be the same since so many variables are in place that are different t for each individual. Myself with 15,000+ flight hours will have a vastly different insurance premium than the 40hr Private Pilot. Also, factor in say, we both own 172s yet mine breaks all the time and yours doesn’t. Just like a car, the cost of ownership would be different.

So to generalize the cost you can easily factor in regular service, a budget for an annual, budget for a maintenance fund for unexpected incidents, hangar, fuel planned for about 100hrs of flying a year, your insurance quote, plane payment if you’re financing, and maybe a fudge factor of 20% on top of that for incidentals, and you are probably close to hourly ownership costs. I’ve figured for me I’m at about $400/hr to operate the 310. That obviously fluctuates with fuel prices and whatever may break. So this year I might be at $600/hr due to fuel rise and a few things breaking that I didn’t plan on, yet next year, may only be at $400/hr. Just depends.

Hopefully that helps rationalize the costs for you. At least it’ll get you started.

Cheers
Dave

 

Well said.

This is how most GA piston plane owners look at things because they have the disposable income to go above their estimates. Just like most Ferrari owners. What I’m more curious about is specific and exact tracked costs. I hear so, so many plane owners brag about how cheap they can fly their plane and it’s doing a disservice to the industry. My grandpa is the only guy I’ve met that admits it’s well over $1,000/hr all in for a Cessna Cardinal after rolling in private runway and hangar upkeep, lost investment potential, etc.

I’ve had many friends get burned on buying a plane thinking it would save them money.

Yes….. one plane can cost $10/hr in misc maintenance while the other identical make&model may cost $100/hr. Lots of unknown variables.

Cessna 310 is a sweet plane for private ownership. Congrats!


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