355 - 355 5.2 slow down and check engine light when reaching certain RPM | FerrariChat

355 355 5.2 slow down and check engine light when reaching certain RPM

Discussion in '348/355' started by bennzwel, Dec 29, 2021.

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  1. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

    Nov 30, 2018
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    I have had my 355 5.2 manual for few months, around a month ago, it started having this weird issue where as soon as the RPM reached 4500 the slow down light and check engine light would light up, engine limps suddenly, but immediately go down when RPM dropped and engine runs perfectly .

    It kept happening after restarting the car and then it stopped after I unplugged the battery , left it for half an hour then started and let the engine idle for 15 mins .

    My indie suggested to replace the spark plugs which I did. And car was working fine. He said the leads seems fine. Then today out of the blue I got the same thing but now at 6500RPM.

    Planning to replace the fuel filter in case there is a blockage and higher RPM engine starves

    Car started perfectly and works without any issue.
    Has anyone faced the similar problem or knows what could be the cause ?


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  2. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Veteran
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    Lots of experts on here so await more detailed and intelligent responses than mine :) But FWIW and being a 355 2.7 owner who also experienced both "real" slow-down/check engine lights and "limp mode" and also "ghost" slow-down/check engine lights what you are experiencing is most likely due to a cat heat issue triggering the ECU protection sensors that warn you and/or shut down the bank of the engine to avoid damage. These can be finnicky and various things can trigger them. If you have original cats I would check to make sure the ceramic linings are not loose/collapsing - that can cause the cats to get too hot and result in what you are describing. Since you have already replaced the spark plugs that would be the next area to look at and diagnose. These conditions usually throw OBD codes/errors as well so either obtaining an OBD diag tool or having your shop/dealer do it will usually help with the diagnosis.

    Again - Not an expert by any means - and there a lot of experts on here - so see what else comes back but this is at least a start.

    Cheers and welcome to 355 ownership :) :)
     
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  3. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

    Nov 30, 2018
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    Many thanks !
    Will get the indie to have a look at it.
    I tried to connect to the 3 pin point using a converter to OBD , but the OBD device doesn’t light up. Does the 3 pin provide power as well or have to sort that separately ?


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  4. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Veteran
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    I believe it should but could be some variance amongst OBD devices - some may have phantom power and some may not (unsure so don't take this for gospel) - I had a thought - there is a lengthy and very comprehensive thread in the 355 forum entitled "355 Stuttering" - the OP was also experiencing somewhat of the same things you are describing and the thread goes DEEP into OBD diag tools/connections/potential causes and solutions etc. - I weighed in a couple of times but it was obvious the OP was very comfortable from a DIY standpoint and the other FChat members who chimed in were much more knowledgeable and helpful than I was. You might take a read through that thread and perhaps pick up some things - not suggesting collapsing threads because your symptoms are a bit different but potentially the same cause or potentially can derive some additional answers to the diagnosis steps and OBD tools - just a suggestion.

    Cheers :)
     
  5. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

    Nov 30, 2018
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    #5 bennzwel, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
    So I disconnected the battery and left it for 45 mins, then started the car and let the engine idle for 15 minutes . Took it for a drive no issue and no RPM.

    I’m concluding it’s something electrical either to do with trickle charging or some form of moisture. However the car has not been washed or under rain. It sits in the garage under cover, but I suspect since there was some rain, humidity has built up and causes issues with some ECU and it won’t be sorted until a full battery disconnect.

    Now I’m going to not connect the car to the charger and use a dehumidifier in the room to see if it makes any difference .


    I believe if the issue was the cats, it would be consistent which is not


    With 3 pin ECU port, does the engine need to be running or should work with IGNITION on only ?



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  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #6 Qavion, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
    You will still need power for the OBD scanner ... and an earth. That is what the red and black leads (with crocodile clips) are for.

    I used a cigarette lighter adaptor to power mine. Something like this:

    https://www.jaycar.com.au/cigarette-lighter-cable-with-bare-ends/p/PP1995

    Just make sure you don't short out the two wires.


    My lighter only works when the ignition is on, but you need the ignition on anyway (and, importantly, the immobiliser disarmed) for the Motronic ECU to power up properly.
     
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  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #7 Qavion, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
    Because you have a SLOW DOWN light, the problem is related to cat temperature (whether real temperatures or improperly sensed temperatures).

    If you suspect moisture is, say, causing your Thermocouple ECUs to malfunction and cause your SLOW DOWN issue, you can fabricate a Thermocouple ECU "bypass" with a resistor and a zener diode... or even a 1.5 battery). But first check to see if your OBD scanner pinpoints which bank the problem is on.

    Here are instructions for fabricating a Thermocouple ECU bypass

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/simple-2-7-slow-down-ecu-replacement-only-for-no-cats.538719/

    This is only for faultfinding in the short term, however. Your cat/s may be overheating for real.

    The engine doesn't need to be running to get fault codes.
     
  8. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Veteran
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    See @bennzwel - Told you there were some real experts on here :) :)
     
  9. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

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    But could cats overheat once during one drive and once the battery was disconnected and engine ran for 15 mins be totally fine even at 8000RPM ? I thought if cats have problems it should be always , am I wrong ?


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  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    This is assuming the cat itself is causing the overheat. You could have, for example, have an intermittent injection/ignition problem causing a real cat overheat .

    Irrespective, I should have specified that what I said was more of a general statement on SLOW DOWN lights.
     
  11. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

    Nov 30, 2018
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    An update on this issue:

    I suspected two things as the root cause, some issue when the car is connected to battery charger , and using the car cover on the back of the car.


    I removed both of above and after 10 drives I never got the slowdown message or check engine light. I am leaning towards some gremlin battery charger causes the ECU, because once the battery is disconnected for 40 mins and reconnected the problem is gone whenever the car was charged .

    I’m case others have the same issue, it might worth to check and see if above applies to you or not


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  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the update, but I can't see how a faulty battery charger would cause a problem with an ECU which would disappear 40 minutes after disconnecting the battery on a 5.2 car.

    The ECU doesn't like overvoltage/undervoltage, but I don't think the ECU would care if the ignition was not currently turned on.

    Did you get your OBD2 port to operate? Maybe that would offer some further clues.

    Humidity may be be an issue.
     
  13. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

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    There were no errors recorded in the ECU.
    The problem might not be necessary the battery charger but something to do with the wiring and reverse feed back to the battery and car components . Even with ignition off there is power to ECUs.

    Humidity on the other hand could be more likely, I put a small dehumidifier in the garage to control the moisture level


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  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Understood, but the ECUs probably won't be doing anything at this time other than preserving volatile memory (fault and learned parameters, depending on the Motronic version).

    Were there no errors because you disconnected the battery?
     
  15. bennzwel

    bennzwel Karting

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    Yeah not sure which ECU is at fault. The thermocouples ones were replaced with a spare to test and at the time it was still showing the warning and cutting off so they were ruled out.
    So I suspect the main ECU , hard to know exact cause but it all seemed electrical but pinpointing it is hard as the ECU of these cars are not as advanced as newer model.

    The diagnostic tool was connected after the last warning light and before I tested the above. Showed no error codes.

    Been driving it hard to see if cats are actually problematic but they seemed fine , ignition was fine, temperature fine , car drove perfectly since.




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  16. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2021
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    If you think it’s in the wiring and has something to do with weather and it’s not show signs at this time you can try spraying a mixture of water and ammonia in small areas around the engine compartment then drive the car and see if something happens but doing small areas you can then narrow down the area




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  17. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    If your indie understands the sdl function it will be an easy fix likely.
    It is working as designed and your bypass is not functioning correctly
    Many many causes but all easy to fix if they understand
     
  18. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    You could start by telling us about any mods to the engine
    If there are none then likely your cats on bypass need replacing or the thermo system or components on bypass needs replacing
     

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