Beware of Cavallino 2022 changes and Canossa | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Beware of Cavallino 2022 changes and Canossa

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by garybobileff, Jan 12, 2022.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Yep, that is a good question from Marcel and others. If 5 were removed because they were independent dealers, then why are there still others that remain?

    You have to take Luigi's word for it now, instead people are running with the rumor as fact. Now in the future if it does go to Miami, then the credibility of Luigi can be questioned.
     
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  2. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Well May 6th the Formula 1 circus comes to Miami for the first time. Two birds and all that...
     
  3. HotShoe

    HotShoe F1 Veteran
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  4. craterface

    craterface Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2011
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    One issue is that Cavallino needs all the good judges it can get. As you know, the judging corps is shrinking due to attrition/aging/death. So getting rid of these judges, so rudely and abruptly is a bad move. People who attend know and like these judges, as well. They are friends. And to do this all at the last minute? Why? They should have maintained the status quo for their first year running the event and then made tweaks after talking with the participants.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    The misinformation and emotional redirection in this thread is worse than CNN. For the sake of sanity let me try to organize it a little.

    Facts as we know it.
    • 5 judges were removed because they were independent dealers, but offered VIP tickets and at least some offered travel reimbursement.
    • Cavallino is not moving to Miami.
    • The majority of judges are still IAC/FPA experienced, how many I don't know.
    • Ferrari Classiche will not be required to enter.
    Open questions/concerns.
    • If those 5 judges were removed because they were independent dealers, why were others allowed to stay?
    • Will there be any "dealer" judges not experienced in judging?
     
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  6. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Well put. Im curious to understand why they do not want to allow these 5 dealers/judges while allowing others. It's pretty understandable that judges who know these cars from inside out would also make a living dealing with them. Why not? It would be a shame to lose people like Gary on the field.

    I remain positive about the new ownership despite what is being said and the bump in prices. I guess this year will answers my questions. See you all there on Thursday.
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Wow! Lots of Drama... Lots of promises. Hope the booted judges are made whole.
     
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  8. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    At minimum they should be reimbursed for their expenses.
     
  9. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
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    Sounds like they are more interested in the tortellini than they are in the cars.
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Luigi already said they did that for Gary.
     
  11. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
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    This: Exactly This
     
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  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    #62 Marcel Massini, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    Wrong.
    One of the "five judges dis-invited" is Marcus Willis from the UK.
    Marcus, whom I have known for quite some time, is an outstanding classic car HISTORIAN but yes, he is employed by a car dealer: Girardo & Co.
    I have worked with Marcus for more than ten years and he is an avid Ferrarista.

    Also wrong:
    Another of the "five judges dis-invited" is Jordan Batson from the UK.
    Jordan, whom I personally know as well, is not a car dealer. Absolutely not. He is an employee in the PARTS department of DK Engineering the UK. I last met Jordan late October during a trip in Italy and he is a very enthusiastic gentleman with fine manners.

    Neither Willis nor Batson are car dealers. Absolutely not.

    I understand Ferrarichat.com is owned by Motorsport Network, which also owns Canossa and Cavallino.

    For those who don't know what IAC/PFA (note correct abbreviation) is: International Advisory Council for the Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile.
    The group was started in 1984 by Ed Gilbertson, Chief Judge at the Cavallino Classic and the Pebble Beach Concours, in an effort to bring some structure, guidelines, standards, and organization to the judging of Ferraris at major events. Emphasis is on originality and authenticity, not cosmetics or cleanliness. All meetings of the group (International Advisory Committee for the Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile) are open to the public and everyone who wants to is encouraged to attend.
    The Council (normally 20 people) presently consists of the following:
    · Phil Bachman
    · John W. Barnes, Jr.
    · Keith G. Bluemel
    · Alan C. Boe
    · David Carte
    · Chris Current
    . David Eichenbaum
    · Donovan Leyden
    · Robert T. Devlin
    · Parker Hall
    · Marcel Massini
    · Christian Philippsen (consulting member)
    · Rick Race
    . Bob Smith
    · David B. Smith.

    The group also formerly included Phil Hill, Wayne Obry, Gerald L. Roush, David G. Seibert, Richard F. Merritt (all deceased).
    Disclaimer: Above list is not totally up-to-date and not complete at all, my apologies for that.

    Regular attendees include Richard Fritz, Kendall Merritt, Brian Crall, Paul Gilpatrick, Adolfo Orsi, Charles Betz, Brooke Betz, Leslie Blinn, Steve Ahlgrim, Martha Bachman, PB Bachman, Patrick Ottis, David N. Seielstad, Larry Benson, Sam Smith, Clem Simmons, Tom Shaughnessy, Heinrich Kämpfer, Brian Hoyt, Dustin Wetmore, Eric Peterson, Paul Russell and Sherry Lindberg.
    Apologies if I have left out anybody's name.
    The minutes of each meeting are also generally available by contacting Ed Gilbertson/Sherry Lindberg. Usually, meetings are held twice a year, once in Palm Beach at the Cavallino Classic, and once at the FCA National meet.

    Additional information about IAC/PFA can be found in the excellent publications "Prancing Horse" (Ferrari Club of America members magazine) and also in "Ferrari Market Letter". Both highly recommended.

    Marcel Massini
     
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I wouldn't call it wrong Marcel then, you just disagree that someone who works for an Independent Dealer, but is employed outside sales should be included in any Independent Dealer exclusion. I might agree with you along with others, but they still work for a dealer.
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    How the f@@k is that a question for Marcel? That is a question for Canossa. It was their action and decision. Quit being such a shill for them.
     
  15. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

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    Canossa should consider hiring Alec Baldwin as spokesperson to help with their public persona..
     
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  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That promise was FINALLY made. It was in no way their opening offer.
     
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  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Brian, read my post won't you. I said that was a good question FROM Marcel, he's the one that originally asked it and it is a good one.

    Don't go head to head with me being so stupid.
     
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  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Only after being shamed into doing so.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    It has been asked many times and dodged just as many. Some of us are far more informed than you.
     
  20. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Yes, the VIP tickets were offered with the original notification though. Gary failed to mention that. You are right, I think the travel reimbursement was offered later, but maybe the wrong assumption was the individuals would still be attending with the VIP etc.
     
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  21. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    what does that even mean? You can't even read the difference between "from" and "for". Marcel originally asked it only yesterday and I give him credit for it, but you still try to turn it into an attack of me? Man, you are losing all sense.
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Google says it is only 213 miles from Southlake/TX to Austin/TX..........

    Marcel Massini
     
  23. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Fixed it -above- for you Robert: you should have mentioned that Cavallino, Ferrarichat and Canossa are all owned by Motorsport Network.
     
  24. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Especially considering the late surprise notice.
     
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  25. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula 3
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    Feb 8, 2021
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    Guys,
    Back to topic. I am a National level 1967 Corvette NCRS judge and we too deal with similar issues hinted at in this post. Once can deduce that the decision here was to reduce the appearance if inappropriateness of "dealers" doing the judging and that their judging may be used to make money, be swayed etc. At least that's the inference i am drawing here. Some kicked out but not others. I get it...
    We, as i've said, deal with it in the vintage Corvette community too.....but one thing that all agree with (owners, the organization, spectators, etc) is that everyone wants the BEST and MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE judges judging their cars at these levels. Otherwise, they're no different than a wash and show car show....yawn

    The difference in attaining NCRS Top Flight at a Chapter level is much different than attaining Top Flight (the equivalent of Platinum) at a NATIONAL level. To me, Cavallino is regarded as the pinnacle show to attain an award at. The owners and spectators will continue to want that. Otherwise, it will be like a glammed up Cars and Coffee.....The balance, direction, rules AND TRUST are all keys to a prestigious show being successful, respected and one that sets itself above and beyond other shows.

    Let's face it....we're all men (mostly) on this forum. Men don't like change...NONE of us. LOL. Just ask ANY of our wives....That's how we're built. The new management wants to "improve" the show. They have ideas. They have bosses. We, as spectators, owners etc have expectations of how the show should run. To be successful, EACH side needs to listen to the other and find compromises. Otherwise, the show is hopeless....Without attendees it fails.

    Just my two cents.....
    I'll be at the show with my lovely wife....so if anyone wants to hear form the horse's mouth that men don't like change my wife will happily provide confirmation of same at NO CHARGE...

    With all sincerity
    ARA
     
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