Here is a couple examples of many that show teams were confused by Masi's actions. Teams didn't have a pre agreement that Masi break 48.12 rules. This footage doesn't show that all teams are calm and following the pre race agreement as you claim. You simply can't argue with video footage.
Yeah, I mentioned that several times: Hamilton is what keeps the FChat F1 forum alive! There are not many threads specifically about Ferrari.
Probably has something to do with Ferrari being completely uncompetitive and constant antagonizing from a select group of Hamilton fans that need to be kept in check. Probably.
Read my post again ... i wasn't talking about "Masi's actions" (i.e. decision about unlapping). I was talking about the moment that Latifi crashed, when the safety car was deployed ... not when it was pulled back in (several laps later). In other words, i was talking about the very few moments when teams would decide to pit or not. During that short "pit-stop decision window" ... LONG before any decisions were made by the Race Director about unlapping ... ALL teams had the full expectation that the race would end under green (because of the pre-race agreement to finish under green if at all possible, AND because of the well-known average/expected interval of a safety car in F1).
Maybe the Ferrari "bubble" has burst and doesn't attract as much enthusiasm as before ? In the opposite, Red Bull and the "Verstappen effect" seem to have polarised the fans. Like I said before, people like a winner rather than following a brand.
Or maybe that the entire forum IS about Ferrari. Where’s the Elton Forum, or the Mercedes? They haven’t the clout, character, or history. They’re uninteresting. So much so that to be talked about they have to latch onto this Ferrari forum. After all Ferrari is F1. To win in F1 is to beat Ferrari.
Nothing official happens in F1 without a paper trail and the production of an official document. I keep hearing about this teams agreement to finish the race under green but have yet to see an official document outlining it. Keep looking guys because it DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!! What there existed was an off the record gentleman's agreement between the teams that it would be a PREFERENCE to end races under green. That is a country mile away from anything structured that the FIA would have to reference on in making a decision. Of course a lot of people have erroneously repeated over and over again otherwise but that does not make it true. There is a huge difference between a preference and an official mandate.
Here's a link for the stewards' response to the Mercedes protest: https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/full-fia-stewards-verdict-on-mercedes-protest-over-abu-dhabi-gp-race-restart/6878859/ and a quote: "Race Director's Evidence The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would "interfere" in the racing between the leaders and that in his view Article 48.13 was the one that applied in this case. The Race Director also stated that it had long been agreed by all the Teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a "green" condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car). Conclusions of the Stewards: The Stewards consider that the protest is admissible. Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following: That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal. That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message "Safety Car in this lap" has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap." To the best of my knowledge, the statement made by the Race Director (in bold, above) and acknowledged by the stewards in their official report, has never been challenged or refuted by any team. In short: The Race Director recognizes and acknowledges that such an agreement exists. The stewards recognize and acknowledge that such an agreement exists. No team has refuted or challenged that such an agreement exists. (Note: This is from a VERY brief search. I might find more evidence, by searching more ... won't happen any time soon)
My point exactly. It seems as though most people interpret the 'where possible' and 'highly desirable' to mean 'at any cost' which is an absurd notion if you take even a moment to think about it.
I don't think anyone has suggested that the recognized agreement means "at any cost" (unsafely, for example). It is entirely reasonable to read "where possible" and "highly desirable" to mean "safely, without violating any rules".
Lewis does make it easy by consistently finishing number one in the weekly the ''dress like a ****'' competition, though.
LOL well I don't exactly disagree with that, I'd say it's more a case of different people are suited to different things, horses for courses n all that.
ALL teams had the full expectation that the race would end under green given the chance and obviously without breaking the rules (hence the video shows this was unexpected) You can't just say "we will finish under green, no matter what happens" because you don't know what circumstance will arise.
At the moment of the crash, at the moment of the safety car deployment, at the moment to decide whether or not to pit ... all teams had the FULL expectation that the race would end under GREEN (for the reasons explained many times, above ... reasons that had nothing to do with Masi's later decision about unlapping). It's just not reasonable to argue that Masi's decision regarding unlapping ... a decision made LATE in the safety car interval ... caused confusion in the teams about whether or not to pit ... which are decisions made EARLY in the safety car interval. The passage of time just doesn't work that way.
Is there only one option to finish under green? In that very moment, Masi had other options to finish under green. In that very moment Masi could have red flagged the race. In that very moment Masi could have decided to let all cars unlap. In that very moment Masi could have not allowed any cars to unlap. In that very moment Masi could followed the SC rules. Instead Masi chose to break the rules. You have to stop sweeping Masi's other options under the rug, as if this was his only option.
You're still conflating decisions made EARLY in the safety car window, with decisions made LATE in the safety car window. Those two time periods are separated by EONS (in racing terms). I stand by my point: WHEN Latifi crashed (with 5~5.5 laps to go), WHEN the safety car was deployed (not when it was brought back in, several laps later!), WHEN the teams had to make the critical decision to pit, or not ... in other words, very EARLY in the safety car window ... ALL teams were expecting the race to end under GREEN (for reasons that had nothing, zero, to do with Masi's decision regarding unlapping ... a decision made much, much later).
So we agree. When Latifi crashed, when the safety car was deployed, when the critical decision needed to be made about whether or not to pit ... ALL teams were fully expecting the race to end under GREEN, not yellow. AGREED. You are quite welcome
So we agree. When Latifi crashed, when the safety car was deployed, when the critical decision needed to be made about whether or not to pit ... ALL teams were fully expecting the race to end under GREEN, not yellow. AND for the rules to be followed as they were all season. And assuming Masi would excercise the many legal options according to the rules. You can't say they were expecting this as well because I alerady showed you footage of the teams not expecting it.
The vast majority of safety car events would have caused the race to end under safety car conditions--there simply was not enough time to clean the track AND do all the other things necessary under the rules--like unlapping cars,...
The average F1 safety car interval is 4 laps ... a fact recognized by Mercedes (it's on their F1 webpage, see post #587). Latifi crashed with 5~5.5 laps to go.
