812 Replacement Rumors

Ferrari replaced the F8 with 296 that only weighs 77lbs more

https://www.thedrive.com/news/41259/2022-ferrari-296-gtb-an-818-hp-rwd-hybrid-made-for-frying-tires

 

One thing I'm willing to bet on is that the 812 successor will be noticeably heavier than the existing car. Another sure thing will be that It'll have a lot more power to both overcome the weight penalty and give it a performance boost over the 812 which the Marketing Dept will insist on.
It'll be heavier, more powerful, faster, quieter and a lot more expensive. All pretty predictable stuff really !

 

This wrong and misleading info is still been bandied about. Ferrari only quote the dry weight for the 296 which is 1470Kg and the same dry weight for the F8 is 1330Kg. A difference of 140Kg(308lbs)

 

@F2003-GA
And then consideration worth mention is the weight impact of a 25% smaller engine and removal of rear mufflers, etc...still +400 pounds or so all considered, plus Porsche has been increasing the size of the battery packs (and weight) being used (in my original comparison regarding where Aventador replacement may be headed...)

as for the 812 successor, still a dream, no reality on the ground or seen anywhere else except un-official rumor-land...

Would be nice if Ferrari gave an actual roadmap like Lamborghini...

 

and two less cylinders. That is an improvement...?

 

Believe me, you are preaching to the choir here brotha!
However, the point he was making is about brash and outlandish power in the Countach...and that it is declaring something about your man card and political views. My point was when in the years to come you have a 1000hp hybrid supercar and 300 hp of that is coming from a NA V12 it is basically there as a sound generator and as such it will seem like an exercise in “piped in sound” when a similarly priced full EV will have 1400hp and outperform the hybrid. At that point in history the V12 component will seem like a cynical exercise in futility for men who can’t let go of their past. The older and vintage cars, like from the current era, will maintain their importance as representing the romance of this period in automotive engineering and history. I think their place is assured. I don’t think the NA component of the power plant in the future is by any means “assured.”

 

308 pounds sounds more truthful. In an ideal world it would be nicer to have a lighter car
But I'm sure they did the best they could while also fulfilling emissions mandates

 

I think that in terms of strategy, it was possible to make another choice. That of making clean CO2 by partially or totally electrifying the Roma, Portofino and Purosangue range, and to be able to waste high CO2 on the flagship ranges of Ferrari's identity such as 296 or F 167 for this purpose.
Unfortunately, they preferred to harmonize everything .
Lamborghini is the biggest marketing scam, knowing that the Hurracan is just an Audi R 8 V10 with another body.
Lift the hood, everything is strictly identical!
Same for the Urus which is nothing but an Audi Q8!!!
In fact, it just proves that the masses are buying a badge and not content.
Ferrari noted it well...
Nevertheless, they are not immune to commercial failure (FF / Lusso)...

 

In what way is the FF/Lusso a commercial failure? Based on anticipated vs actual sales? Owners sure seem to love them …


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It was forced on customers as a gateway car to get special editions
Buy a Lusso and get a Pista is what I was told after already buying
12 Ferrari's over a 21 year period - It was also a heavily discounted car

 

What a wild statement given the current market and current desirability of these amazing V12 shooting brakes

 

Ferrari and any company whose marketing division determines its what buyers desire and will commit. We have to recognize that the newer buyers today and the buyers of tomorrow don't care about traditional dynamics like weight. They've never commanded a 3-pedal car or experienced true lightweight performance. Its about straight line giggles, badges, and tech.

Of course its been a self-fulfilling market strategy since the governments have been mandating electric everything but modern buyers want it and as many gadgets in a sports car as in a production luxury car. Soon they will poll as desiring full autonomy in a special edition sports car when its too much of an effort to pull and push paddles or turn a wheel. Ferrari will be glad to respond.

 

Lusso has been around since 2017 model year today's market is abnormal
Plus my statement is Not wild it was common practice to force buyers to
get the Lusso a few years back thats a fact

 

When that day comes, hopefully the only thing I'll be driving is a wheelchair. lol.

 

I was one of those customers that was “gently” told that if I bought a Lusso then I’d qualify for a Pista. So, I bought a Lusso expecting to drive it once or twice and flip it. Turned out to be one of the most favourite cars I’ve ever owned. Absolutely loved it. So what was your point again?


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That was a US thing mainly, so that's not a good generalisation. Here in Europe people bought them because they wanted them.

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Porsche has taken a major stake in a company that specializes in virtual heads up displays, that show the ideal racing lines on any track.
So yes, more and more tech is coming and "you will love it and be happy (yet own nothing)"

 

I agree. So if that leaves a large group of enthusiasts like us who buy and drive cars of this era which a manufacturer makes zero dollars off then perhaps they will still bring to market something appealing for us (government rules notwithstanding). In a similar way to Porsche operating their “GT” division.
Just hoping.

 

i didn’t mean “wild” as in untrue. What you said was definitely accurate for that era. My statement was just a commentary on the immense difference five years can make. If a dealer told me today I could get a Pista if I bought another Lusso, I’d sign up in a heartbeat!

 

Nice car no doubt But if you were following the conversation properly you would know we were referencing that it was not a commercial success Hence No replacement

 

I live in the US I would be talking about my experiences here - I did not insist it was a world view

 

But didn’t they all sell out? From what I recall, Ferrari always sells out so wouldn’t it be hard to say “not commercial success”? I’m not trying to be cheeky I’m really asking. From what I remember at certain cycles Ferrari had nothing left and the dealerships moved their inventory before the next cycle.


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The reality is, in the USA, the Ferrari dealers regularly had surplus allocations for the GTC4 Lusso; that means the factory was providing more allocations (i.e. build slots) than customer demand; As always, Ferrari dealers need to 'fill' their factory allocations as best as they can, so, those dealers resorted to 'forcing' orders for the GTC4 Lusso by requiring a customer to order a Lusso to receive what they really wanted (i.e. Pista). That's what a 'failure' looks like when there is less demand than the factory expects/desires. I believe annual worldwide production of both the V12 and V8Turbo Lussos was about 1200 units (I did not review to confirm, just what I recall)

 

I wanted desperately to order a Lusso but my wife just thought it was awkward and ugly. She agreed to was great to ride in. It’s a lot to spend so we ended up with the 812 SF.

Still a big win!


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The quality of the car is not in question, but the level of sales was much lower than initially expected.
It's always been a difficult segment for them.