If you wanted to activate your secondary rams, you could do a variation of Paul's planned setup. i.e. remove the roof ECU, but keep your relays and custom bypass switch: Image Unavailable, Please Login You would have to splice a wire coming from your top opening relay (going to the pump motor), however.
That's funny. I was just looking at that diagram trying to figure out how to fire the secondary cylinders. I'll look at it deeper this weekend. Thanks!
WATSON: In case you are interested, here is a wiring diagram that Ian provided for me so I could run the wires from my bypass control switch to my center console OEM top switch. Then, there would be no need for the switch in your ashtray. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Do you mean those pins should be grounds, or should I short them? I am sure car is overdue for a hydraulic fluid flush, so my plan is to siphon off as much as I can and refill. Then, I thought I would raise the top as far as I can, and then short pin A8. Shouldn't that activate the secondary rams?
The rams should provide grounds (at the corresponding sockets of the Roof ECU plugs) when the roof is up. i.e. socket B13 for left ram, A5 for the right ram. Put your multimeter (ohmmeter) probe on the socket and the other probe to a good ground to see if you get zero ohms (give or take a few milliohms). You may not need to add the relay if the primary rams extend first, so provide an earth to pin 8 to activate the F1 solenoid (ignition must be on). Then close the roof (slowly). Hopefully the results won't be corrupted by low fluid levels or sticky rams. Watch for signs of skewing.
OK, will do. These are for the primary or secondary rams? If they are both at zero ohms, that what does that tell us?
These are for the primary rams (which control the secondary ram sequencing). If at zero ohms, the internal switches will be ok. You could also see if they change state with the roof down. i.e. open circuit. If they don't change state or operate in the reverse, then we will have to do a re-think.
Fluid was below min line. Now at max line; no noticeable change in speed/operation. Image Unavailable, Please Login With top fully up and latched, A5 reads 1.6 ohms and A13 reads 1.9; both have continuity to ground. With top manually pushed back to the mid point, readings are the same. Upon depressing the down button, very soon after the primary rams begin moving, both pins go to OL and remain there with top fully down. While depressing the up button, the readings stay at OL until the primary rams are near fully extended, and similar ohm readings return. Is this what you expected? What have we learned?
Sounds reasonable. It depends on the accuracy/resolution of your ohmmeter and how good your earths are. I think your primary actuator internal switch values should be fine to operate a relay and a solenoid. You may want to check the resistance of the F1 solenoid valve (with the plug off). Easier said than done, I guess.
Not sure if this has any importance, but there is a split second when ohm for each pin spikes. So to recap, when top is up pins A5 and B13 act as grounds. As soon as rams start to retract ohm spikes, and then immediately goes to OL. While going up, OL reading is present until rams are almost fully extended, and the ground signal returns. Is there anyway I can test the secondary rams from the A, B, or D connectors? Does F1 have constant 12v?
The ram internal switch contacts may be covered in oil and other semi-conducting debris. As the contacts separate, the resistance will increase rapidly, then the meter circuits will determine that there is no current at all flowing in the ohmmeter circuit and show OL (open circuit). I don't think this will be a problem. There is only one switch in the left hand secondary ram and it is only used to turn off the motor at full extension (roof closed) i.e. with the assistance of the Roof ECU. My roof slams down onto the windscreen prior to the motor turning off, so I don't know if my switch is broken or if this can be adjusted (or if all roofs do this anyway). Usually I prevent the roof hitting the windshield by either releasing the roof switch or using my hand to gently lower the roof. Let's not overcomplicate things by adding another relay for motor cutout Anyway, the LH ram microswitch can be tested through pin B14. I believe you should get an earth with the rams fully extended. (EDIT: Needs the ignition to be on)
Is there a relationship between B14 and A8? I should see earth at B14 with full extension, and if I earth A8, with ignition on the secondary rams should extend? Unfortunately, I think this is normal........anyone else care to comment?
There may be, but I don't recall seeing anything in the books about it. It would make sense to reclose the valve at the end of ram extension. The valve may simply reclose when the (OEM) roof close switch is released. You may want to physically confirm that B14 is earthed at full extension. My diagram says earthed, but I recall that Ferrari switch symbology shows switch symbols in the roof closed position (which is no earth). If you earth A8, with the ignition on, the rams should extend (if the roof motor is running in the closed direction). Are you seeing some differences to what I've said?
I don't have earth at B14 with primary full extension, and the secondary's do not activate while shorting A8 (ign on). I don't even hear a click or noise from the F1 solenoid. As mentioned, my secondary rams did not work prior to roof ECU and seats being removed. I thought that might be because the seat pots were not working and the ECU needed that input in order for the secondary's to work? Not certain I understand...??
Last year my car was at a buddies shop and he told me that he "thought" (and felt very confident) that the top would fully close while using the bypass switch...meaning the secondary rams were working,,,,,,,.it that possible? That would mean that pins A01 and A02 communicate with either A8 and/or B14......
While I help my top back (because, well, why not) using what is effectively the e-switch, it does retract completely on it's own. Are the secondary cylinders working during this process? I have not checked yet.
Hoping you mean extend completely? If yes, that is encouraging. Wouldn't it be impossible for this to happen without those cylinders working? How can you check their operation?
Not possible. The bypass switch only has control over the primary ram relays. Probably gravity plays a role here (plus your input). In theory, the elastics are also supposed to help the roof fold a little. It may even depend on the age of the canvas. Not going down. According to the WSM, the F1 valve is open (energised) only when the main pistons are fully retracted (roof 2/3rds closed when moving to closed). The secondaries need to be at full extension to get an earth at B14. If you don't have an earth at B14 in this condition, do you get an earth with the secondaries not at full extension? See earlier comments about switch symbology. I don't know how noisy the F1 solenoid is when it activates. By "shorting", do you mean shorting to earth? Your F1 solenoid may indeed be faulty (as you had problems before). This could get expensive.
Does this mean with the roof closed and latched there should be earth at B14? Yes. I connect a known good ground to A8, and I check for continuity with B14 the same good ground. I can assure you it will not...LOL. Unless I can find a reasonable way to get the secondaries to work, I am going to let go of this quest. It would be good to know what exactly is wrong, but beyond that, I am very happy with my remote set up, and this is not a huge deal; especially, if the solution causes the header of the top to slam the windshield header as you have mentioned.
The left hand secondary ram internal microswitch should change state (earth or open) if the secondary ram is at full extension. In theory, this should happen with the roof as far forward as it can go. This may be in the latched position. In theory, you could also lower the roof somewhat (using the primaries), then pull forward on the front part of the roof, manually extending the secondaries to their limits. Do whatever is easiest. In practical terms (not theory), we need to find out if/when the LH secondary ram internal microswitch changes state and what it changes to (earth or open at B14). It should change state at or near the limit. Any slight rearward movement of the roof away from the windshield should cause the switch to change state.
This doesn't sound promising. If you're activating the roof (closed) with your remote and with A8 shorted (black/red wire on some cars) to earth, the secondaries should move. How does the wiring look between the F1 solenoid plug and the ECU? It's been reported that the wiring can get damaged (near the solenoid). Can you run a continuity check between the plug and A8 on the ECU? On the power side, did you say you got voltage with the ignition on at the solenoid plug?
