812 Replacement Rumors

World's going backwards. Insanity.

Time to buy a place somewhere in the tropics away from people. Use yearly "carbon" allotment in 2 months driving trip in Europe (so long the car isn't totally handicapped with a live-speedometer directly linked to your bank account/government). Spend rest of the time in said tropics drinking and surfing, pondering where it all went wrong.

(it was appeasing to *****hat wearing vegetarians)

 

Exactly

 

Plus the potential customer base is a million times more than the current one

 

I know it is off topic, but do tell more about the restomod 308….


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No you are not. Ive been looking for a Euro 308 QV GTB for that exact same thing.

 

Given the current state of EV infrastructure and the size of auto industry all this is hogwash as far as I am concerned. Wait till we start getting closer to the deadline and it will become a moving target like Tesla's delivery timelines for FSD . The current regulatory deadlines are more of a signalling mechanism than anything else. The move away from ice is going to happen in exactly the same manner as the move away from Coal (i.e. with a very long tail) but on an even longer timeline.
Regarding the philosophical debate of where it all went wrong, even though I am a die hard petrolhead when it comes to sport cars, I think electrification might not be a bad thing if (and this is a big if for me) we can do it well for the mass produced cars. Also humanity has been through a similar change (although on a much smaller scale) in the past when we went from horses to cars. For the horse lovers this was sacrilege and craziness (a lot of period books capture this) but a generation or two onwards humanity collectively moved on (and what a move on it was!). Such is the nature of change/progress....

cc @JTSE30

 

EV, I am all 'for it' but only if 'market forces' are the motivation. You will never find me choosing to purchase an EV (car/truck) for any reason whatsoever, that's my choice.

Unfortunately government regulations are forcing EV upon the manufacturers and they are attempting to make it work. But, it will not work. Some will go out of business for the specific lack of business (at least 40% of current consumers have no choice but to completely reject EVs, so any 'full EV' manufacturer will be 60% smaller than now and probably quite a bit less).

Comparisons to horse and buggy is not possible. No government forced horse and buggy advocates to stop. They are produced and in-use today and there have been quite a few advances:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/how-the-amish-build-a-buggy/

There has never, in all of human history, a worldwide coordinated government effort to remove a very useful and highly functional device for one that is less useful and not as functional. Perhaps lightbulbs would be the closest, but there are so many exceptions that incandescent bulbs are still easy to purchase albeit not in exactly the same as before and the alternatives, which are more complicated, expensive and polluting and some emit RF are suitable for most and do not result in reduction of freedom of movement.

EVs will be full of ADAS (especially those not possible with ICE/hybrid) that will become more and more invasive and result in more control over your use of such vehicles...and there is the major problem, between forced regulations and forced ADAS compliance, there will be fewer willing customers...

 

My feelings as well.

They set the 2030/35 as a initial date so that manufacturers will get a move on with electrification. I do think the "yearly carbon allowance" will happen in the future, no idea when, but probably in the next 20 years or so.

Regardless of what I think of electrification, so long it's actually clean (currently IMO it isn't as clean as we're being told it is, but I'm not looking to enter that debate with those pro EV here as I don't want to derail the thread), I do think it's a good thing, so long we can get Porsche's (and others) synthetic fuel anywhere in the future so we can continue to enjoy pure sports cars, I don't mind.

I don't think a truly exciting EV can ever exist, as it will always miss certain characteristics I look for in a sports car, but for a pure luxury car with the new batteries in 5 or so years, absolutely. A big Bentley or Rolls Royce in pure silence with a huge range/quick charge, that can work.

 

Too much hyperbole to compare the EV move to the car move from horses. Animals versus different motor in the same vehicle.

 

It is fair since it is a move from one form of energy to another. I remember reading an article from the 1800’s where the author was declaring that the newly invented matches are too unreliable and will never ever replace the tried and true flint and steel.

All technology gets replaced eventually. As eloquently stated above, this drive is politically driven rather than simply being adopted because it is an improvement. Cars solved a big “pollution” problem in cities. Of course, it creates other issues, but overall it was an improvement.

And there are always things lost in those transitions. Anyone who has no experience with actual horses cannot understand what was lost in that transition. ALL cars - even the most beloved Ferraris that we all love - are soulless in comparison to an actual horse. We justify that by talking about practical advantages such as comparative ease and lower cost of maintenance, speed, efficiency etc.

In my view, the analog between horse to automobile is completely reasonable since the early versions were little more than “horseless carriages”, meaning it was only the “motor” that was replaced. Nobody in those days imagined a modern or semi modern Ferrari. And it could be that nobody today imagines where EV’s will evolve to.

Those are my thoughts about it. And I plan to keep my 812 forever if possible!


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+1000

 

Today's govts themselves are neither useful nor functional.... !

 

Thank you for making the point. I doubt anyone who pooh poohs the horse to car transition is a well versed horse rider or read enough period literature on how horse riding enthusiasts felt about it. I was not talking about going from horse carts to taxis. I was talking exactly about what you said, the soulfulness of horse riding to that of driving cars (especially cars from the early 1900s).

 

Thanks. Rereading, it was a little disjointed.

I grew up riding horses on a ranch. Many people replaced horses for moving cattle with four wheelers but we did not. Nothing quite like riding a good horse, but I don’t want to ride across Texas on one!

I think what most of us find particularly galling is what folks above have said. This is a politically mandated change that is based upon a false premise of saving the planet. It is a weird and seemingly unique movement. I actually think EV’s are great for high density population areas. They solve an issue for those areas. They don’t solve for everything but the narrative is that they do and that there is no downside.

The second discouragement is that there is no apparent resistance by the major companies. They just blindly jump on the bandwagon. Perhaps Ferrari will emerge as a unique leader in EV execution. Perhaps it will not. If not, we will be sad. And we will protest.


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Still hyperbole. You can't even tell the difference looking at an EV from an ICE car. Add digital noise and you can't tell any difference in any manner. But sitting on the back of a giant, breathing, defecating animal or seeing a beast dragging a buggy compared to an all-weather car? We shall agree to disagree!

 

I also grew up riding horses on our family mountain farm which we used for shepherding and gathering sheep however wouldn't want to use a horse for daily transport. I see a future with exclusive EV cars in all heavily populated urban areas which will do wonders for public health. However I still see a future for ICE sports cars for open country roads where the charging infrastructure is sparse at best.
Why can't both EV and ICE co-exist in perfect harmony with each mode of energy serving different driving environments.?

 

Exactly

I’m on the pre list for the 812 successor. But will be keeping our 812…


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any info about 812 successor?

 

No more than what I read here. I just told my dealer that I want on the list as soon as it is announced….

I did the same for the SF90, then switched to F8 because I decided to wait for the next gen hybrid.


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Because then what would most politicians have to do all day? Governments always need a "bad guy" to keep the proletariat focused!!

 

A thread about Ferrari V12s and I’m told the future is the meta verse.

Meat Loaf was right all along. The future sure as **** ain’t what it used to be!

 

And that about sums it up!


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“You Will Own Nothing and You Will Be Happy"

 

22,23,24, already allocated/committed

thus, if there is an 812 replacement (yet to be seen/occur) the earliest it would reach production is in the year 2025!

 

Strange times....strange times.