Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550? | Page 27 | FerrariChat
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Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Ferrari55whoa, Oct 2, 2020.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #651 Texas Forever, Feb 13, 2022
    Little bit of a pivot here. Given the delta between manual and F1 cars, and the cost of changing a F1 to a manual, wouldn’t it make more sense to buy a good 550 and upgrade it to 575 specs?


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  2. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #652 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 13, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    That has been a cornerstone of this thread.

    I agree.

    @dhalperin13 has one of his 575’s at EAG for conversion and has a thread….I’d love an update….EAG recently moved to Austin so I’m sure that has slowed his conversion down.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/575m-f1-to-gated-6-manual-conversion.639636/page-6#post-148183008

    I personally prefer the 550 (especially the gauges) to the 575.

    I dug and dug and searched for a 550 that was “full of options” and had all those evolutionary upgrades and it is a very short list of cars.

    I’m extremely grateful I get to be the next caretaker of my 550. I can see how a lot of people don’t have the time or interest or trusted mechanic to give the 550 the evolutionary upgrades….especially some of the very rare ones like:
    switchable FHP,
    Remote trunk release,
    COP ignition,
    Upgraded fans/cooling
    upgraded fuel tank pumps,
    cruise control, etc etc

    575’s are easier to find “full optioned” and finding a full optioned one at a good price had been easier….so buy, enjoy and then maybe someday convert seems like a strong strategy…..
     
  3. SteveVT

    SteveVT Karting

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    #653 SteveVT, Feb 13, 2022
    Eric,
    I agree with your analysis above and would add 2 small points:
    1) I'd like to see a bit more of a track record for EAG's conversions both in terms of their performance/reliability and how they are received by the market.
    2) Having come to enjoy the F1 myself, I wonder if there will be a certain niche nostalgia for the F1 in future years as collectors come to realize that they were an interesting and innovative 'bridge' technology between manuals and today's super slick dual clutch units. Kinda like how my 21 year old son looks at pop-up headlights on 80s and 90s sports cars and thinks they are cool in a retro way.
     
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  4. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #654 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 13, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    i agree as well.

    for reference here is the EAG thread….it’s a little stale.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/my-horrible-experience-with-eag-european-auto-group-san-antonio.632945/page-12

    I keep dreaming about when/if I let a few of my other cars go so my wife wouldn’t bust chops and then keep my 550 and do an EAG 575 conversion myself.

    I built my vintage Baja racer Meyers Manx in my garage (with help) and doing a 575 conversion with help would be really cool.
     
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  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #655 tazandjan, Feb 13, 2022
    Tex- It is virtually impossible to convert a 550 to 575M specs. Way too many differences that would be cost prohibitive to change and would not really improve the 550. Better to just update the 550 to make it the best 550 possible, like Eric suggested.
     
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  6. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #656 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 14, 2022
    Edit - I posted in wrong thread
     
  7. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #657 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 23, 2022
    @Crush301 i was reading your comment in this old Sheehan/BaT auction regarding owning a euro 550 in CA for 10 years and having no problem with smog.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-ferrari-550-maranello-6/

    did you never get the car BAR certified?

    we could also move this to a private forum in silver/red or DM if you don’t want to post here.

    I had understood what you explain was all but impossible with out getting the BAR sticker?

    Thanks in advance for the education….I’ve got a lot to learn - thanks - E
     
  8. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    #658 Themaven, Feb 23, 2022
    Yes, it would require a new engine and gearbox, to start with. Seems a higher friction route than buying a 575 in the first place.
     
  9. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #659 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 24, 2022
    We had one of if not my favorite color 575's today on BaT. I liked this one. If it had been at last years pricing I REALLY would have liked it. A driver you can enjoy and not stress about.

    Typical driver level car, lots to like, typical wear, noted scratches and some (seemingly minor) dent repair.

    SOLD for $96,500 on 2/24/22 out of Costa Mesa, CA but sold on an Arizona tilte......buyer noted the car was going to SE Michigan.
    2002 F1 575 ZFFBV55A220127233 and assembly 44531
    +) 40,289 miles with 18k of those put on by the current owner
    +) Blue TdF over cuoio with shields
    +) Standard seats with wear, had an unusual looking center strip and seat piping to make it look daytona style
    +) Two sets of wheels, OEM and one set of aftermarket. Also had the spare in the trunk
    +) leather issue near/on binnacle. leather parcel shelf, cd changer, I don't think there was an answer to the "stickies"; 2 fobs/keys including the red master and the leather fob pouch. I don't believe they had done a clutch reading (google search showed perhaps it historically had a clutch at 14k) .
    +) Tubi-style mufflers; aftermarket Alpine stereo
    +) timing belt / water pump service done October 2021.....service records going back to 2013 noted by seller.
    +) 127233
    +) https://www.sportscarcompany.com/details-2002-ferrari-550_maranello-maranello-used-zffbv55a220127233.html
    +) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-22/

    As noted on this recent thread on the forum.....I guess compared to where other inferior cars are (ze german's) It does feel like this is very under valued......
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/575-current-values.655747/#post-148392725
     
  10. Joel Delman

    Joel Delman Karting

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    #660 Joel Delman, Feb 25, 2022
    I thought the BAT car sold quite low given some recent sale prices, it was a great color combination, seemed well (and recently) maintained etc... Thinking that stock market and war jitters made for a bad day to sell.
     
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  11. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior

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    #661 LorenzoOO, Feb 26, 2022
    If an F1 575 would sell for say $120 and is then converted for $30, as you say, then your in it for $150. A factory 575 stick is probably worth $250, or more, no? (IF you can find one). So the difference is $100, and not double the cost of the conversion.


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  12. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #662 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 26, 2022
    Getting feedback from @dhalperin13 who remains in process and I thought @Mellow_Maranello had a deposit down….will be helpful. I know Art has done over 100 of the 360/430 conversions but I think Dan’s will be EAG’s first 575?

    Unless people are trying to get in line with WdG or GTO?

    Hoping EAG is successful as I’ve been very interested in a positive way.
     
  13. Mellow_Maranello

    Mellow_Maranello Karting

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    #663 Mellow_Maranello, Feb 26, 2022
    They're still working on finalizing the 599/575 process but hopefully it turns out well. If not I'll send my car up to New Jersey, but just really don't like car haulers so that's a friction point for me and why I'm waiting it out for hopefully a solid local option.
     
  14. Ffre92

    Ffre92 Formula Junior

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    #664 Ffre92, Feb 26, 2022
    Don’t know how detached from reality this ask is, but there really aren’t many of these gated cars for sale at any time. Autosports designs also has one, price not listed. Personally if I was offered this price for my car I’d decline, but I’ll admit many of my decisions are not financially sound.
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    #665 Laserguru, Feb 26, 2022
    I've seen the car and it is very clean, appears well maintained and all as advertised. My F1 575 came from there and I saw it when I was looking at the car I bought. I can't comment on the market pricing for 6-sp 575s as they are way out of my pocket book range.
     
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  16. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior

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    #666 LorenzoOO, Feb 26, 2022
    In a world where 15 year old off the rack Carreras are selling for $100+ who’s to say what anything is worth except for the guy with the checkbook?


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  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #667 Texas Forever, Feb 26, 2022
    Frankly, I loved my 550 as it was, a plain Jane 550. It was more than enough excitement on the street. It was fun on the track once you understood it (nor the 575) was meant to be a track car.


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  18. rsteele

    rsteele Rookie

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    #668 rsteele, Feb 28, 2022

    I bought this one and wasn't really looking, but the color combo, and the fact that it was well sorted and serviced made me think there was no downside, and I have a couple 250 mile trips I do regularly ..... It was the last remaining of many dozen collector cars for a man deep in his 80's, he bought in early 2010 and used it mainly for longer highway trips like Monterey, etc. He used it 2-4k miles many years, more recently not so much. It was stored and maintained in superb condition. Has ceramicpro, including calipers. The dash was originally cuoio, replaced with black, maybe in 2013. It appears the center blue strip was added at that time to match the blue stitching and piping. When my wife said she was worried about inflation and we needed to get rid of cash, I am not certain this is what she had in mind. File under the category of better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
     
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  19. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #669 Ferrari55whoa, Feb 28, 2022
    I think your wife was thinking of this car exactly!

    This is a perfect car to use and enjoy and not sweat the miles.

    Very grateful you checked in. We will love to hear more as you have time with it and do some drives!
     
  20. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #670 Ferrari55whoa, Mar 2, 2022
    Today was the next 550 on BaT following Nifty's.

    This R/C Euro was a repeat seller on BaT this time with a much higher result.
    +) 2/20/20 It was RNM at $109,999 at 10,535 miles
    +) 3/2/22 it was $175,000 at 11,441 miles

    The market continues its upward projection. How long till a 550 can't be bought for under $200k.....how long till $300k becomes "normal"?
    Everyone keeps shouting how undervalued in comparison to other cars they are and that sentiment is hard to ignore.

    SOLD for $175,000 on 3/2/22 out of Sarasota, FL
    1999 EURO 550 ZFFZR49B000117091 and assembly 34284
    +) 11,441 miles
    +) Rosso Corsa over Nero
    +) Imported (December 1999) and prepared by Amerispec - originally a german car
    +) January 2021 additional investment in maintenance was material (nearly $14k)
    +) 18" Modulars and OEM wheels; quilted shelf; ferrari seat covers and "regular" seats";
    +) I missed how many keys & fob's? Colleen noted in the 2020 auction (after I think @henryr asked) it had 2 keys & fobs including the red master.
    +) 117091

    +) link for reference on the US vs Euro discussion (there are likely others as well): https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/difference-between-euro-usa-550.7305/#post-146163190
    +) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-ferrari-550-maranello-11/
    +) Last time when Colleen Sheehan had it on BaT: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-ferrari-550-maranello-6/
    +) plus the Sheehan link from prior to BaT: https://ferraris-online.com/cars/1999-ferrari-550-maranello-117091/

    Someone on BaT using the handle Escargot made 28 comments (some insightful) and then got hit with a couple of "non-constructive comments". I assume that is one of us from here.....he noted his "2004 575 corsa/tan everything else options since 2006". The internet and BaT can be harsh.

    Interested in thoughts.....hoping the buyer "Pipino" (new handle to BaT) comes to visit our subforum.
     
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  21. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #671 Ferrari55whoa, Mar 15, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
    Yesterday we had a very low mile (5k) 6MT 575 sell on BaT. Due to the rarity of 575 6MT I'll put more than normal links below.....

    The tide continues to float all the boats. This was fun to watch. My favorite color combo. Lots to like. Eye watering number?

    +) sold for $426k at RM in 2016? https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/144918517/ that posting had me confused.....That post makes a comment that perhaps this is one of the converted cars? Nathan's book registry shows it as a manual, and one of the BaT photos shows the options list and on the top right of photo 175 it shows "Transmission: 6-speet M/T"?

    +) sold for $357k to yesterdays seller in 2018? https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148428984/

    Higher mileage (but still reasonable) on the 6MT bought by @docapl but as a comparison....his 2018 purchase was a screaming deal at $215k? https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-6/

    Historical GTO-LA 6MT Converted car bought by @jcaspi1979 $181k as a note as well: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148195831/

    SOLD for $410,000 on 2/14/22 by Fantasy Junction in the San Francisco Bay area but sold on an Arizona tilte.
    2002 6MT 575 ZFFBV55AX20127464 and assembly 44763
    +) 4,979 miles with 6 prior owners
    +) Blue TdF over cuoio with shields with blue carpets
    +) Daytona style seats with blue piping, leather shelf, shields, red calipers, cd changer; Tubi-style exhaust with OEM included.
    +) 2 key fobs including the red master, the security paper document shown in photos, stickies handled.
    +) seller acquired 2018 and in April 2018 timing belt service done. Stickies January 2018. 500 miles since 2018.
    +) historical FCA platinum award
    +) "The selling dealer notes two cracks in the paint on the rear bumper cover."
    +) 127464
    +) https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148429954/ @LorenzoOO
    +) https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148428903/ @F456M
    +) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-23/

    Anything anyone didn't like on this one? Who would be brave enough to be the guy to click over the magical 5,000 odometer reading?
     
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  22. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    #672 Auraraptor, Mar 15, 2022
    Its a beautiful car no doubt. Too rich for my blood unfortunately
     
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  23. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #673 Ferrari55whoa, Mar 15, 2022
    I should have had these other BaT sales for 6MT's just for posterity too...

    +) 29k mile Sold for $202,000 on 7/26/21 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-22/
    +) 19k mile Bid to $211,000 on 10/14/20 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-ferrari-575-maranello-6/
    +) 11k mile Sold for $95,000 on 4/27/20 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-six-speed/ salvage title with theft recovery ZFFBV55AX20128467
    +) 30k mile Sold for $192,222 on 6/18/19 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-8/
    +) 26k mile Sold for $235,000 on 12/26/18 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-6/
    +) 23k mile Sold for $231,000 on 10/29/18 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-7/
     
  24. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior

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    #674 LorenzoOO, Mar 15, 2022
    My mechanic (Enzo at FCNJ) tells me that from his experience these super low mileage cars are going to require more service and more replacement parts than cars that are driven regularly and don’t sit around drying up and congealing up. They need exercise!


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  25. Ferrari55whoa

    Ferrari55whoa F1 Rookie
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    #675 Ferrari55whoa, Mar 15, 2022
    If I owned that car and it had 4,979 miles I don’t think I’d drive it at all. Literally on and off a trailer to keep it under the magic 5k.
    At that price it’s tough to drive it and crush a ton of miles?
     
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