Michael Masi gets fired/replaced?

Max has a stigma to the Hamilton supporters. Any perceived stigma will not show in the history books just as Hamilton having the most dominant F1 car in history will not show in the history books.

 

2 months and 58 pages later MV is still the WDC, MB the WCC.

 

I agree with you on most points and think its healthy to debate and consider other peoples opinions, some on here take it personally unfortunately. I have followed all of this debate and am still not convinced that the rules were broken. Past incidents have never inflicted such a severe & fatal wound to the sport as this, not since the Senna / Prost debacle that still rages today and marred F! for years and beyond.

Although the teams voted to finish under green conditions, it doesnt override that the regulations are there to be adhered to, whatever your point of view is. For me this was a mistake that has had far reaching implications for the future and integrity of the sport, this question should never have been raised in the first place! Why ask such a silly question...its dumb and lacks authority. (unless there was an agenda before!)

The sporting regulations are stupidly weak and really have never been improved fundamentally to cater for the modern sport, they were just useless cut and paste clauses based a reactive incidents rather than looking at how the teams can manipulate the sport in a big way and on track protocol. All to often teams have squealed like stuck pigs and given far to much influence. Unfortunately the FIA have rather shot themselves in the foot and rewarded the prize money in such a disproportionate way. Smaller teams have never stood a chance against the big boys and go to the wall all to quickly.

The fault doesnt lay with MV winning under a dark cloud or LH losing because Mercedes didnt make the right call in a millisecond decision. The fault lays with the FIA and its corrupt and egoistic attitude.

The FIA have a difficult decision to make, sack Masi and admit there was some wrong doing or keep him in place and he loses all command of respect and honesty for the forthcoming season. The doubt & suspicion is there whichever way the dice is thrown.

Best regards
Tony

 

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Masi breaks his silence

 

Thanks Tony.

I agree, even though teams agreeing that they prefer the race to finish under green doesn't make it a rule. However, the pressure that both Mercedes and Red Bull put Masi under this race (and many others), led to him to make a decision, one that teams requested...again it's not a written rule of course. I've no idea if F1 said the same to Masi as well, to finish under green whenever possible (especially it being a championship final), again it's not a written rule but it could affect his decision to allow SOME cars to unlap.

IMO it all boils down to this: Masi let some cars unlap, and those that couldn't unlap, were not affected in any way shape or form affected in their final championship standings. Nor would getting/not getting an extra point make any type of impact.

Not allowing unlapping, with the race starting on lap 58 would ensure the title for Lewis.
Allowing unlapping put the slower car immediately behind the races' faster car, albeit on fresh tyres.

Had Masi made the decision to allow everyone to unlap a few moments earlier (i.e. just before crossing the finish line), the procedure would been followed 100% to the letter, no debate for rule 48.12 and 15.3 could even be discussed, and Max would still have been world champion. BUT, and here's the big one, Masi would still be accused of manipulating the result of the race for allowing any driver to unlap because it's not a requirement. There would be no change in anything but Lewis fans would still be just as upset, they'd still accuse the FIA of manipulating the race. The only thing they don't have is an argument for poorly written rules...

And that's how we arrive at our mutual conclusion, the rules were poorly written, which allowed for Masi to do what he did.

IMO what will happen is the grey area/poorly written parts of the rules will be cleared up. I think Masi will likely get a deputy to help him out. IF Masi goes, it has to be for continuous mistakes, and not for 1 isolated incident. In this race alone he was manipulated by two teams in 3 different instances, all of which contributed to the results of the race. It's not his fault the rules are poorly written. It's taken the FIA 2 months to even figure out what went wrong, and Masi had moments to make a decision. If it was so desperately clear cut a mistake was made, the results would've been rectified shortly after the race. Mercedes had their own barrister at the race and he couldn't convince the FIA they clearly did something wrong.

But the narrative that Lewis' was stolen is getting old fast. Mercedes should've pitted, but they didn't dare to do it, for fear of a pitstop error. No one can blame Red Bull/Max/FIA for that. Even though the pitstop would've been tight, it was possible to do it. Mercedes didn't want to risk anything and instead tried to manipulate Masi again to have the race finish under yellow, then to not allow anyone to unlap, and finally to disregard the final lap. They succesfully manipulated Masi twice before that race already so third time is the charm, right? Unfortunately for Mercedes, Masi had Red Bull also in his ear this time and argued the race should go ahead and cars should unlap.

So adding to what will happen is that no radio communication of telling the race director what he should and shouldn't do will probably be added. If he wants the teams input, he can open a line of communication with them, not the other way around.

Meanwhile, LH fans will continue to put an asterisk behind Max's title, just like they would've done if it all went exactly like procedure and everyone unlapped like normal, or if the race restarted like it could've done on lap 57 giving 2 laps of racing.

They also continue to put an asterisk behind Rosbergs' title because poor old Lewis' engine blew up.

It's never a two way street with LH fanclub, and it never will be.

 

I cannot speak for those that support LH, personally i dont like the guy and very unlikely to ever meet him to change my mind. On the stage he is a prima donna but then i guess he can do what he likes, as for PR he needs to change his team as far as i am concerned.

Whoever lost would have cried wolf so for me its a pointless debate and agree Mercedes made an error in hindsight but not at the time, buts thats my take on the situation. Whichever driver (team for me) you support, when the ref gives a penalty kick in the closing stages of a football match the opposition will always feel cheated, thats a given...done it myself.

Track position with minimal laps to go was the deciding factor and it didnt work this time, with so many people in the background trying to predict various scenarios before they happen it is difficult, and I think most teams get it right most of the time.

Totally agree, MM was manipulated and it was a tough call in those vital seconds. As I said in my previous posts I do feel sorry for Masi, but will he hold a grudge. I would!!!

Now if it was SF that was wronged then i would be fuming

Best
Tony

 

I think its the opposite. I think there is only a one way street with the Lewis haters. You are incorrect about Lewis fans will continue to put an asterisk behind Max's title, just like they would've done if it all went exactly like procedure and everyone unlapped like normal. First of all its not only Hamilton fans that accuse the officiating. Even though you try to paint the picture that its only Ham fans. If Masi followed the rules as normal, there wouldn't be this long contreversy. Its simple. I'll say it again. If Masi followed the rules as normal, there wouldn't be this long contreversy. Its really that simple. If everything went normal, Hamilton fans would be mad at Latify for causing an accident. If rules were followed, I think the talk from Hamilton/F1 fans would be focused on Latify only. No investigations. No contreversy. No Masi job security talk. And we wouldn't be still discussing this.

 

+1 on all fronts.

Replying to the bold bit, MM was in an impossible situation. Whatever decision he made, people would've been angry:

1) Finish under yellows, manipulated the championship (3rd decision in Mercs way this very race)
2) No unlapping whatsoever, start on Lap 58, manipulated the championship by presenting a mission impossible for Max with 1 lap to go
3) No unlapping, restart race lap 57 (possibly too busy because Mercedes/Red Bull shouting in his ears?), possibly (with hindsight) the best, fairest thing he could've done
4) Throw a red flag. Bias decision because Mercedes didn't pit, and Red Bull already did. The incident itself wasn't worthy a red flag.
5) unlapping a bit earlier so that all cars could unlap (possibly too busy because Mercedes/Red Bull shouting in his ears?). Totally within the rules. LH and fanclub would say it was manipulated.
6) Doing what he did. See current situation. Rules written with grey areas gave him the right to do so.

Options 3 and 4 give the most fairest outcomes, but both are with hindsight only. With the small amount of time to make a decision, processing all that information, and having at least 2 teams barking orders at you...it's just a **** situation to be in.

 

Why do you think following rules as normal would be looked at as manipulation? SC rules were followed as normal all season before Abu Dhabi. There was no manipulation talk, at least on this forum.

 

Mesi should have done either... 1) or 5) not some half arsed concoction he dreamt up with the help of RBR.

 

It's very convenient to claim that everything you post is Gospel and the rest is just rubbish.

You echo Peter Singhof's modus operandi.

 

Ahh Singhof ..always good for a laugh... NOT....he would insist black was white 24/7 and twice on Sundays.Maybe he has somehow resurfaced hmmmm?

 

You're still blissfully unaware that you are doing exactly that as well?

2 of you now? PS singhof never left the site.

Glad to know he's firmly in the pair of yous head though.

 

Without Masi's intervention, the likely outcome would have been the race ending under yellow, since there were not enough laps left to respect the established protocol.

So be it!

The agreement between teams to close the race under green had absoluetly no force of law to mandate a rule change.

The blame rests with the man who took matters into his hands to deliver this fiasco: Michael Masi.

The FIA in its latest communication, seems to have addressed these issues, but Masi's future is still undecided.

 

Yep, Hamilton simply cracked under the pressure. He's a driver that needs a cushion in order to perform well.

While I understand in the "GOAT" debates people put to Schumi's dirty moves to take Hill and Villeneuve out for titles, what they're bringing up is largely a red herring driving skill wise. Any driver can be the dirtiest SOB and a horrible sportsman, and yet if they've got the best skills, nothing can take that away from them.

While Schumi's driving ethics might've been poor often, Hamilton has a more serious flaw: he causes tons of collisions and cracks under pressure. During his McLaren days he practically ran into the whole field at least a few times, and would have incredibly bad brain farts under pressure like the title deciding finales in Brazil in 07' and 08', and of course China 07'. The collisions got even worse as McLaren struggled to build a competitive car, and even at his first year at Mercedes, Hamilton was still getting into stupid incidents. It was only when he got a car that was the class of the field that these incidents weren't so numerous. But even then, we saw the silly mistakes return when Rosberg figured out the Mercedes himself. Verstappen got even more in Hamilton's head this year, and the foolish driving returned, as evidenced by Silverstone, Baku, Monza, and of course, the finale itself, where Ham was just not able to be calm under pressure.

Hard for me to call a driver with those tendencies so baked in near greatest, no matter how the stats look.

And yes, all of the above applies to Vettel as well. In both Vettel and Hamilton's case, the car made the driver.

 

Yes, it does.

Drivers and teams expect that the things they're told in briefings as to how race officials will handle X situation, is how they truly handle that situation if it comes to pass. That's not just an F1 thing, that's racing series around the world.

 

If anybody are toxic to the sport, it's Mercedes.

They've decided that if they're not winning, they'll smear the sport.

Mosley would've NEVER tolerated this **** from them. He'd have told them that Masi's decision was final, and that if they couldn't handle it, they were welcome to exit F1, and someone would buy their team up.

 

LOL! Yes, you do care what happens. You want the FIA to just give the title to Hamilton, even though he lost fair and square on the last lap.

Would you Hamilton supporters have felt bad if Ham won only because of Ham and Bottas taking him in two races? What's that? No? Yeah, that's what I thought. You wouldn't have. Team Hamilton were eager to accept the trophy with a smile on those terms, so color my apathetic as to what they think is "fair"

 

If I can speak for Tony, he's no Ham fan and I don't think he'd like to see the title handed to him, either.

 

Good point.

 

He issued a clarification of the Safety car etc in Nurburgring 2020 race. So what was that for then lol??

Any 'gentlemans' agreement with the teams IS NOT an FIA rule

Had Max lost the title in this fashion I would post the same. It would be wrong given Masi's actions in Yas. He cannot issue a 'clarification' and then ignore it and literally do what a team recommends and then snipe verbatim back at the other team "Its called a Motor - Race" lol. Thats just amateur and petty is it not?

Title is Max. No question. It ended. How it ended is not defensible given Masi's own 'clarification' of the rules one year ago. Period!

 

Fair enough.

My apologies, TonyL.

 

Wrong on both accounts !!

Not everyone who contests the Abu Dhabi result is an Hamilton fan. Most are likely simply F 1 fans.

If you call the last lap "fair and square", you have a very poor notion of what sport is.

 

+1

 

Very true and applicable in a lot of sports, when doing scuba dive briefings we try to cover all eventualities and scenarios so nothing goes wrong, underwater at 40m is no fun when things start going bad. You can see the trouble coming so sticking to a predetermined dive plan thats going wrong is dangerous and simply foolish to press on, thats when the dive guide comes into his own, taking decisions for the best outcome. Hope you get the gist & analogy of what i am trying to say!
Best
tony

You do like diving in with both feet, you do have to learn to sit back sometimes. I admire the tenacity but I have said many times i dont give a rats butt for any driver.

None, except a tiny minority are dedicated to the team. They are disposable (in a nice way)