Michael Masi gets fired/replaced?

Fair enough.

I talked out of my ass on that post and pegged you wrongly, and I was wrong. I'm sorry.

 

What was this crazy F1 forum ? just wondering...

 

I agree that no matter what Masi did there would have been people unhappy with the decision. That is pretty universal in life and it is when the unhappy become a majority that you know something is wrong. While I empathize for his situation at the end of the day he is a well paid and experienced professional which brings with it a great deal of responsibility. I will add that if Masi was being faced with some strange circumstances that required a radical decision then I would further understand his position. He was not as there was NOTHING special about the situation that warranted a special ruling.

The fact is that when Latifi crashed Masi had 4 reasonable courses of action all supported by the rules and precedent. Regardless of what decision he took, if he followed one of those 4 paths then he was covered by rule and precedent. Yes there would have always been someone unhappy but at least you can point to established precedent to justify ones decision. This is no different in both law and life in general. Remember this is about proper governance not about who it benefits and all that nonsense. It is about applying the rules and being able to point to other times when that course was taken where there was no argument.

As it was the passage of time started closing off options for Masi. I believe we can all agree that throwing a red flag after 2 laps of yellow would have been universally unpopular and suspicious. It was publicly announced that the race would resume with lapped cars left in place. Again one of the options available to him and defendable after the fact. Had he just stuck to that decision the controversy would be limited to a biased minority.

In the end Masi took a decision that goes against the basic principles of both law and governance in sport where the rules must be applied EQUALLY to everyone. Selectively applying one set of rules to some cars while another set to other cars AT THE SAME MOMENT (which is different to inconsistent rule applications over time) is a major breach of both the ethics and job of a referee regardless if the rules allow the freedom for such a decision to be made. All the fans of the sport were cheated of a fair outcome at that moment.

That is the true controversy. Not who won the race and or championship.

 

Wonderful point, not emphasized enough in this thread. Masi acted within his authority, broke no rules, and honored the pre-race agreement to end under green. That's it.

Who could have known that Hamilton would fold so easily, under the slightest hint of pressure from Verstappen? Who could have known that Hamilton wouldn't follow through on his promise to "silverstone" Verstappen again, if he tried to pass?

The teams and fans got one final lap of racing ... not some "pre-ordained outcome from on high".

 

I wasnt after an apology, I was trying to to give you an example of how drivers briefings are not cast in stone, they are merely guidance, hence the diving analogy and how a pre-determined event can go wrong, which requires a change of the dive plan. The principal diver protocols are not foresaken just adapted, some disagree at the time but that's inevitable, at least they survive to dive another day!

The person in charge (MM) should have switched off the radio and made his decision based on his experience and events unfolding in front of him

Best regards
Tony

 

It was a general racing forum for ex-Champ Car fans and F1 was also discussed. That's all I'll say.

 

In which case why the BIG investigation by the FIA ? Still ongoing ...nothing to see yeh righhhhhht

 

Simply not buying it.

So now, the "argument" goes like this ...

Yes, Masi has applied rules UNEQUALLY all season long. For example: He's penalized Verstappen for gaining an advantage off-track, while looking the other way when Hamilton does the exact same thing. But those cases are "way different" because the INEQUALITY wasn't applied at the exact same moment of the same race.

I'm sorry, but that's pure nonsense. Points are accumulated all season long ... inequalities and inconsistencies applied at different times, during different races, are just as impactful on the entire season as inequalities applied in the same moment of the same race.

These pro-Hamilton arguments are getting weaker by the day.

 

Well, not exactly.

When Masi did not immediately allow the backmarkers to be waived by, he broke precedent then and there. Backmarkers have always been waived by for many seasons now, and if he suddenly restarted a race with them in the way, after years and years of backmarkers being waived by, it would've raised flags that Masi was protecting Hamilton from Max. Covered by the rules? Sure. But then so was what Masi ultimately did.

Part of what created this controversy was the mistaken bulletin, stating that lapped cars weren't overtaking, which should not have gone out. I believe that without that this would not nearly be as controversial, and I can't help but wonder if that was a mistake at control.

It was also terribly stupid to broadcast communications from the Mercedes pit to Masi. Toto's pleas in that moment were understandable, because every team leader is going to lobby for what's in their favor, but when it publicly was broadcasted, as the restart was playing out, it tainted viewer perception that something horribly unfair was taking place, when the reality is team leaders scream that things are unfair constantly without it being broadcasted.

Masi and the stewards should be allowed to do their work in private, without the concern of their real time debate on how to officiate being broadcasted, and used against them to support claims that they're final decision wasn't done in good conscience.

We don't need to hear inner debates at race control. It does nothing but create a circus. There's a reason Mosley didn't allow it to be broadcasted.

 

For someone who claims to have gotten over Max winning the title several hours after, you've claimed plenty of times the best finish to the season would've been ending under yellows...handing the victory and title to Lewis.

I don't disagree that what Masi did was highly unorthodox, but unfortunately for those involved, the grey area in the rules did allow for it to happen, especially with all teams agreeing that it was much preferable for the race to finish under green conditions.

The vast majority of people screeching are LH fans, who do not want to see the race revoked, but a single lap. Which is insanity (because otherwise their precious one doesn't win).

All this controversy for a handful of lapped cars outside of the top 10? Yeah I don't buy the outrage that people are upset for them being wronged.

We've had many controversial incidents with the FIA.

IMO it all boils down to the fact that Masi decided that cars could unlap vs not unlap. Forget the few cars that couldn't unlap. Hamilton fans call the ending manipulated purely because cars could unlap. They really don't care for the last few cars, all that is is extra ammo. They would be screaming just as loud if the cars unlapped as normal.

 

Once again, Shovlin ... speaking for Mercedes, on the "spirit of unlapping" ... sheds some light, and begs a question from the Hamilton fans:

"This will have two important effects, firstly the cars directly behind the safety will line up in actual race order so when the race restarts they are in a position to overtake each other. Secondly, the majority of the field will be on the same racing lap, bunched together and with some of the cars on new tyres. Together with the DRS, this should create exciting racing in the midfield where cars on older tyres will be ahead of cars that have stopped for fresh rubber who are trying to battle their way up the order for points.”


QUESTION: Didn't Shovlin realize how terribly unfair this would be to the minority, not on the same lap? Why would Mercedes advocate such a terrible thing?

 

This thread is ,or should be , all about Masi .The whole Lewis/Max talk is just noise.

Masi IS under investigation NOT Lewis/Max ...smh

 

+1

 

They keep trying to switch focus. Bringing other names or past events into the picture.

 

Just upset MV title is tainted ( Not by max him self i must add ) , Masi did loads of things wrong on those last laps, calling safety car in the same lap as releasing unlapped cars ( against the restart proceedure that 15.3 does say to make sure is correct and to be done in line with the regulations ), calling safety car in whilst track wasnt clear, not unlapping of all cars which has only been done once when one of the cars radios had failed, so no one could tell that 1 car to unlap are just a few of those things, in the end, He decided the end of the race and the finishing positions of a alot of the grid, and for not giving every other car who had also pitted for fresh soft rubber the same chance to improve and race as MV got.

One of them got a free ticket to a front row seat of the race, not sure what happened to the other ones who pitted for new rubber, but i know 5 other cars finished with no overtaking allowed, having been allowed to unlap, so stuck till the safety car line..... Still curious why this is an ok finish for them 5 but not for rest.

Any way, out come is looking most likely that Masi is set to lose his race director role.

 

I don't see any contradiction in these opinions.

Yes, I still think the safety car protocol should have been observed, and I blame Masi for his intervention. That's where my anger is.

Yes, I accept that Max is champ. What happened isn't his fault, and I don't think a title should be decided in chamber by the FIA Council .

 

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LOL Yeh man It's not personal, look at it this way, just rethink what you post ! like below afterall that is what I was referring too.

You think he needs a cushion...unreal, LH performs his best when his back is against the wall IMO, however I'd say it's a bridge too far when someone moves the goal posts....

Also it does make one wonder why you had to come off another forum, as in your own words "it got too crazy for you", LOL.

But no worries,...... I know I know, it's everyone else that's crazy hahaha Adios

 

"Be nice" ..Toto

 

Let's assume that Masi is, in fact, fired/removed. The debate will undoubtedly continue ... was Masi fired for the last few laps at Abu Dhabi? Was he fired for inconsistencies all year long ... inconsistencies recognized by both Red Bull and Mercedes?

I would offer this simple, objective perspective: look for where rules also get changed. No need to change rules that were simply, obviously violated by a "rogue" Director!

For example: If safety-car rules (or, The Race Director's authority over the safety car) ARE changed, but the "legality" of gaining an advantage off-track is NOT changed ... that paints a pretty clear arrow as to where Masi was in violation, or at least inconsistent in application, of rules as currently written.

(Of course, Masi may get the boot simply because Mercedes threatened that Hamilton would not return if Masi remained. Again, look for where rules get changed ... that will tell a more "objective" story.)

 

You mean you?

 

What happened to all that complaining that I was being uncivil? Don't cry about the need for civility, when you wish to be passive aggressive to people in disagreement.

 

If FIA changes ANYTHING it will confirm that there was foul play. Changing anything means that they feel in some way some drivers were given an advantage and others not.

 

Sorry Steve but elton is known to have a few blunders under heavy stress....brazil 2007 comes to mind...this year magic button, that race (can't remenber were Nico figured how to "fix" the car and elton was all ove rthe place pushing buttons....we all know he's not exacly bullet proof!

 

I think that was Baku