Jeddah 2022 Pre-Race Thread | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Jeddah 2022 Pre-Race Thread

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Mar 21, 2022.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2019
    13,386
    The Capital of The United States of America
    Full Name:
    Willis
    Yeah, it is all about the tyres. That's been true for at least five decades, no?
     
  2. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    We seem to always have to deal with tires issues, wear etc. I would think overall no driver or team is satisfied with one aspect or another related to them. Racing lol..........

    Bahrain surface is 'abrasive' and overall the tires appeared to have some durability. I did not hear about a 'cliff' with them yet.
     
  3. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-high-drag-wing-clouds-mercedes-f1-power-doubts/9219334/

    Why high drag wing clouds Mercedes F1 power doubts
    Mercedes thinks a too-high downforce rear wing it used in Bahrain makes it difficult to judge if its engine has fallen behind in Formula 1's power stakes.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    By: Jonathan Noble
    Mar 22, 2022, 7:03 AM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    The German manufacturer endured a challenging season-opening Bahrain Grand Prix, with its W13 no match for Ferrari and Red Bull around the Sakhir track.

    But as well as struggling to match its rivals in the high-speed corners, the Mercedes was well down in the speed traps too.

    And, with Mercedes' customer teams all battling towards the back in the race, it prompted some speculation about Ferrari and Honda having overtaken the German car manufacturer in horsepower terms.

    Asked by Autosport about the potency of the Mercedes power unit, team boss Toto Wolff felt it too early to make a firm judgement because of the wing solution that was being run.

    "We need to analyse the drag levels first before we really make a judgement of whether we're lacking power," said Wolff.

    "I don't think that there's big differences between the power units but clearly Ferrari made a big step forward.

    "Last year they weren't totally competitive and, if you look again at the singular event in Bahrain, it looks like they've outperformed everyone else."

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Yuki Tsunoda, AlphaTauri AT03, Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes W13

    Photo by: Mark Sutton / Motorsport Images

    Mercedes is clear that the rear wing it ran in Bahrain will need to be changed for this weekend's Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, which takes place on the high-speed Jeddah circuit.

    And running in more equal drag configurations to Ferrari and Red Bull should at least offer a better insight in to engine power.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  4. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,566
    Montreal
    Who said anything about a Mercedes’ conspiracy? At least not yet.

    The point was BBC’s HAM apologists implying that only HAM had “tyre” problems.
     
  5. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    "And this is the biggest concern. Privately, some drivers were damning about the new Pirellis. F1's tyre supplier was supposed to be designing tyres that were more robust and allowed drivers to run closer to the limit in races for longer and race harder with other cars."
     
  6. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,566
    Montreal
    Which drivers and since when are drivers complaining “privately”?
     
  7. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,795
    Tyres lasting less is not necessarily a bad thing, it could just mean more pit stops. With cars easier to follow and overtake (in theory) strategies based on saving tyres and blocking everybody won't work anymore.
     
    Bas likes this.
  8. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,046
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Let's hope so, and that Jeddah gives more evidence that Ferrari are better on deg than the others.
    This crazy track remains an outlier though.
    Does any body know if they have made any changes in order to make it a bit less of a demolition derby ?
     
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,766
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I don't think there are any changes.

    Ferrari looks in very good shape. Apparently ran in their highest downforce setup this weekend which also helps against tyre deg. Top speeds near as makes no difference identical to Red Bull who used lower downforce setup.
     
  10. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    There was some press that the circuit was modified in specific places due to safety concerns. Bloody fast it remains LOL
     
  11. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/alpine-upgrade-is-first-hint-of-teams-following-ferraris-lead/

    Alpine upgrade is first hint of teams following Ferrari’s lead
    9 hours ago
    By Rosario Giuliana
    70 Comments


    When Alpine presented itself for the Bahrain Grand Prix, it became the first Formula 1 team to bring a substantial sidepod update since the end of 2022 testing.

    The initial design choice on the A522, in regards to the management of the airflow in the sidepods, was to keep rather high bodywork and to then have a downwash in the final part.

    It was a very similar choice to that of Red Bull and AlphaTauri, which have very high radiator inlets and bodywork that drops towards the floor towards the rear wheel to bring air into the outer wall of the diffuser.

    But the new sidepods Alpine brought for the first race in Bahrain include a modification right at the rear, with a raised edge that looks like it could be inspired by – and is certainly taking the same direction as – the aerodynamic philosophy of the Ferrari F1-75.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    The raised wall indicated by the arrow forms a sliding channel for the flow of air in the part above the sidepods, acting as a barrier so as not to disperse the flow and retain it in the central part.

    It is clear that it is not an identical copy of the Ferrari F1-75 design, but it is a first approach that suggests Alpine is trying to take inspiration from the unconventional shape chosen by Ferrari on the 2022 car.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Is this a first indication that Ferrari’s solution can be copied by the adversaries? Or given the lead times in producing upgrades, that other teams were already coming round to the same conclusions as the team that started 2022 with a 1-2 finish?

    It is perhaps too early to tell, but Alpine is certainly the second team after Ferrari to form a ‘gutter’ to channel the air over the sidepods.



    Other teams have instead kept the direction of the downwash as in 2021, creating a slide on the bodywork behind the radiators to bring a portion of air that passes over the sidepods above the floor.

    Whether the choice made by Ferrari for the bodywork is ultimately the winner on these 2022 cars we will probably find out in 2023.

    The complete Ferrari shapes will be difficult to copy in the current season, as the solutions other teams have chosen are too different overall and would require them to change the aerodynamics too much.

    The Ferrari shapes are also quite close to the limit with the regulation, which in addition to constraining the volumes also limits the concavities.

    The new Alpine sidepods are a sort of hybrid version between Red Bull/AlphaTauri and slightly Ferrari. The new specification brought to Sakhir also included changes in the front of the sidepods, under the radiator inlet. The new shape shows a wider undercut, which seems to collect a greater flow of air above the floor.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    The update brought by Alpine is not something as revolutionary as what was produced by Mercedes, which already had its new project on the way before the start of winter tests.

    Alpine may have studied this solution after seeing the Ferrari presentation, and could now be testing the aerodynamic philosophy of the F1-75 on its A522.





    The new Alpine sidepods were already brought to Bahrain on Thursday, and first glimpsed during the routine technical checks. But when they broke up on Esteban Ocon’s car in Friday practice, only Fernando Alonso ended up using the new version.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Alpine has also brought a new floor, to reduce the much-hated porpoising. On the new specification, used by both drivers, an extra slot has been added to take away part of the airflow that creates the aerodynamic stall on the straight, causing the car to bounce. The floor seems different even in the outer wall.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Given the doubts surrounding the direction of the Alpine team, and a difficult pre-season test at Barcelona in particular, it had a respectable start to the year.

    Alonso’s upgraded car was an encouraging eighth in qualifying, though in the race it was Ocon who came through to seventh, two places ahead of his team-mate.



    What did you think of th
     
    paulchua and petrol_junkie like this.
  12. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/must-fix-alfa-issue-nearly-ruined-bottass-dream-debut/

    Must-fix Alfa issue nearly ruined Bottas’s dream debut
    9 hours ago
    By Edd Straw
    10 Comments


    Valtteri Bottas’s sixth place in the Bahrain Grand Prix was a dream result on his Alfa Romeo Formula 1 debut, but a recurring problem with starts almost derailed his race.

    Bottas qualified sixth, but dropped to 14th place on the first lap as a consequence of wheelspin off the line.

    This was caused by what Bottas described as a “vibration in the clutch” that afflicts the Alfa Romeo C42 on its starts.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    “I just had massive wheelspin and cooked the rear tyres as the wheels were still spinning in third gear,” said Bottas of his launch.

    “For the rest of the first lap I was still sliding around quite a lot and being a sitting duck.

    “Sometimes, we have this vibration in the clutch. It happened 50% of the time [so far], and when it happens it’s quite easy to break traction.

    “So it’s on our job list and we’re working on it.”
     
    paulchua likes this.
  13. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

    Nov 4, 2006
    11,594
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    They have done quite a bit of work moving walls back from the racing line to enhance sight lines, that is vital and there were some very dangerous spots particularly for qualifying.

    Back in my karting days, in 1985, I volunteered to do a safety assessment of my club's track and there were intense right on the limit high speed esses hemmed in by tall dirt banks preventing you from seeing potential dangerous situations before you arrived upon them so on my suggestion they had a bulldozer or digger go at the banks and open up the visibility angles so that you could see long enough ahead to avoid hitting a spun or worse rolled kart and driver. I'd like to think I saved a few injuries with that.

    Here are the details:

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/saudi-arabia-outlines-jeddah-f1-track-changes-for-2022-race/8571694/
     
    johnireland, DF1 and 375+ like this.
  14. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    14,004
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    It wouldn't be an Alfa without some quirks...
     
    Isobel, paulchua and jpalmito like this.
  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    24,371
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    RedBull update regarding their cars "fueling out" at Bahrain. Also explains how the fuel system works.

    FormulaUno excerpts translated:

    The fuel is not drawn by one pump, but by three. Initially, there is a lift pump (low pressure) that sends the fuel to a manifold.

    Subsequently, the priming pump intervenes which increases the pressure and sends the fuel to the high-pressure pump, which has the function of feeding the injectors of the V6 internal combustion engine.

    Two of these three pumps are classified by the FIA as SSC,i.e. standard supply components. We are talking about the priming pump, supplied by Magneti Marelli, and the high pressure one, supplied by Bosch.

    The lifting pump is instead classified as an OSC (open source) component, ie a part that teams can design independently but in which the project must be shown to the other teams, via a dedicated FIA server. The other teams can thus download and analyze it, even copy it.

    In the pre-season test, some teams, including Ferrari, had problems with the priming pumps.

    Over the weekend in Bahrain, the FIA gave the teams more time inside the Parc Fermé to check these pumps, also proposing their replacement should the teams notice any problems.

    Horner confirmed this, adding that “it was more of a general problem and not specific to our car. We were given extra time, so we wanted to check them out just to be safe". As understood by FormulaUno, Red Bull was among the few teams not to replace it.

    In the past few hours, the FIA has unofficially denied that the problem directly concerns this component. We then started talking about temperature at the lifting pump caused by the "cavitation" of the fuel.

    A pump works fluids, not gases, for that a compressor would be needed. We can therefore understand that if the fuel were to evaporate, it would create many problems both to the pump and to the accessories that compose it, such as its gaskets.

    If a gasket were to overheat, losing its physical and mechanical characteristics, it would generate a loss of pressure in the fuel system of the internal combustion engine and therefore a failure to send the fuel to the subsequent stages of the supply.

    A team does not believe in the technical reasons, adding that it is very likely that both Red Bull's stopped on the track due to lack of fuel.

    To compensate for the weight difference of the RB18, according to a qualified source, approaching 10 kg over Ferrari, would mean they use less fuel.

    This, coupled with a very tough race from a competitive point of view for the first four drivers and overheating that altered the fuel level (the new E10 evaporates at a lower temperature), helped to take the car over the limit.

    Even after the performance in Bahrain, Red Bull believes that the RB18 has an advantage of 1-2 tenths on the race pace compared to the F1-75, which disappeared in race precisely because of these problems that occur while racing in dirty air.

    https://www-formu1a-uno.translate.goog/red-bull-ci-vuole-nascondere-la-vera-causa-dei-ritiri-di-verstappen-e-perez/?_x_tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
     
  16. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,273
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    From the moment a Ferrari wins, I don’t care if we make 2, 3 or 4 pit stops!:D
     
    ingegnere and Jeronimo GTO like this.
  17. petrol_junkie

    petrol_junkie Karting

    Jan 16, 2017
    199
    Dublin
     
  18. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,731
    The first 40 years of F1 (modern era) did not involve pit stops.
     
    375+ and william like this.
  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    24,371
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Ferrari put their engine in conservative mode at the BahrainGP. The team wants to gradually increase the power to study the reliability.

    "The genesis of the Superfast engine was long, and its unconventional solutions according to Enrico Gualtieri, are the fruit of work that includes Wolf Zimmermann, who has been in charge of the experimental programmes for a long time."

    https://www-corriere-it.translate.goog/sport/formula-1/22_marzo_22/f1-ferrari-ecco-armi-segrete-rossa-realizzare-doppietta-vincendo-anche-arabia-06a01c34-a958-11ec-8325-fd7a7d1851e8.shtml?_x_tr_sl=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
     
    crinoid and Bas like this.
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,684

    :rolleyes:
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,684

    The trick is do no more and possibly even less pit stops than your opposition.
     
    jpalmito likes this.
  22. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

    Nov 4, 2006
    11,594
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    That's just part of what was done, CF my earlier post.
     
    petrol_junkie likes this.
  23. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Excellent point. All 3 of mine were fun and amazing. Should have never sold any of them lol :)
     
    ricksb and 635CSI like this.
  24. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,471
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    My view on drivers:

    1) Ham - Talented Primadonna
    2) Vet - Has been
    3) Lec - the future
    4) Sai - hard worker, careful he doesn't become forever bridesmaid (see Bot)
    5) Bot - Bridesmaid
    6) Zho - ?
    7) Yuk - has to work harder/lazy
    8) Mag - old faithful
    9) Nor - wicked quick and wit
    10) Ric - downward trajectory
    11) Alo - the past
    12) Lat - a cardboard cutout
    13) Str - nice kid
    14) Rus - hungry
    15) Alb - bad luck
    16) Gas - swift
    17) Sch - has to get out from under the shadow
    18) Oco - even-steven/mediocre
    19) Per - good wingman, seems happy to be bridesmaid
    20) Ver - bully
     
    HCEdwards and ricksb like this.

Share This Page