FORMULA 1 STC SAUDI ARABIAN GRAND PRIX 2022 - Jeddah - RACE.. ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS▄▀▄▀▄▀

Before the war (WWII) the European Drivers Championship was the ancestor of the WDC, it existed from 1931 to 1939.

Nuvolari participated every year during that period and won the title once in 1932.

Rudolph Caracciola missed 2 years, but won it 3 times: 1935, 1937 & 1938.

Do you still maintain that Nuvolari was the best?

 

Only if you maintain Hamilton is a goat

 

I get it. You don't like facts that you feel threaten your bizarre man-love for Lewis Hamilton.

- He shamefully threw a WDC away en route to the pits in China.
- Button scored more points than Lewis in their three years as teammates.
- Nico, in at best equal equipment and strategy, beat Lewis head-to-head.
- Max beat Lewis in a slower car last year, despite loads of assistance from the stewards.
- Hamilton is the only driver in history, as far as I am aware, to have a crane lift his car back onto the track after crashing out and then be allowed to resume the race.

All of that is 100% factual history. The rest is opinion, well supported by his track record...

Lewis, at his best, pilots the car to its natural place in the standings. Usually.

He's a very good driver on one of the most exceptional teams in all respects that this sport has ever seen. He absolutely sucks in a marginal car and loses his cool in competitive situations involving other drivers, unless he's breezing past a much slower car under DRS at the end of a long straight. He's also an insufferable, spoiled **** on the radio and in the press.

 

I don't believe in the "GOAT notion" and you will never find me defending it.

Therefore I never made such claim for any driver.

 

U really struggle with math and impartiality lol
I wonder what u do for a living.


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Enjoying these first two races!

Mick needs to get up there with KMAG or Haas will have to think about a better driver to maximize the car's potential.

Perez great race to take poll and hold the lead, until worst possible VSC/SC timing, oh well.

The Charles/Max dueling continues, good stuff. The hard braking to AVOID taking the lead, to get the DRS for the 2nd consecutive DRS zone was like a video game tactic. Charles and Max pulling it off safely, while a similar thing caused HAM to hit VER last year just might be a good example of who has driving talent, no disrespect to the 7 time champ.

BOT bad luck continues, RIC more crap luck, ALO the same, TSU too. The new car regs have certainly impacted reliability in these first two races.

 

Hey they are ALL desirable I love the Calibre 12s- Just trying (and failing) to be as cool as Steve McQueen so waited for mine- The 160th Anniversary Carrera was also a wait and with them only making 1860 of them for global distribution I didn't think I had a chance in hell of getting one but my AD and patience won out-

I love it- And the packaging with the monocle to see the detail on the back and on the rotor was super cool- see below-

Take care- You should jump over to the watch forum- Great people and ridiculous amount of knowledge there- Cheers


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A friend of mine was a guest of merc this weekend @zalasin if u know him, as per him Mercedes as a lot of upgrades and things in the works… maybe they will catch up.


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Those are beautiful!!! Old school and classy as hell, Awesome

 

To be honest, I could not care less about Steve McQueen. I’m firmly in the Paul Newman camp. McQueen was an abusive, philandering, addict. Practically anyone who rocks a Monaco is cooler than him in my book by default. I just really liked the look and the fact that it’s named after my favorite race is the icing on the cake. It would be cool if TAG Heuer sponsored Leclerc, but he’s firmly in the Richard Mille camp.

 

I have no "man love" for Hamilton and I am not even one of his fans.
However I do not condone people who denigrate his achievements and track records over the years, or do their best to diminish his importance in the history of the sport. Which is exactly what you do without shame! This is implying that some championships are more important than other, and some WDCs more deserving than others.
The facts are recorded by the FIA, which is the ultimate arbiter in F1.

You seem displeased that someone on FChat takes you to task for making baseless accusations, spinning falsehood, selecting stats that suit you, pointing out mistakes and never giving credit.

- Spinning in the wet on the pit lane in China 2007; true, who has never spun? Can you show me a driver who has never spun in the wet?
- Button scored more points than Hamilton only one year out of 3. You avoid saying that he won more GPs and had more podiums than Button though.
No, you avoid that because it doesn't fit your agenda which is to show Hamilton as a lesser driver than Button.
- Rosberg beat Hamilton; true, but only one year out of 4. Not consistently. Rosberg took the title in 2016 and retired.
Doesn't that make Hamilton an inferior driver to Rosberg like you are trying to say? No BTW, I was a Rosberg fan.
- Yes, Verstappen defeated Hamilton last year at the end of a chaotic season, but the final twist was given to Max, by an officia; have you noticed?l.
Does that make Hamilton an inferior driver to Verstappen? Well, not over a whole career, but credit to Max anyway.
- Yes, Hamilton was once recovered by a crane and relocated on the track to resume racing. That was in full view of officials, who seemingly did nothing about it. What was he supposed to do? Pull up in the pits and retire? Was he supposed to ask for a penalty? Do you imply he cheated? Or that he asked for that treatment? You realise the stupidity of your allegation now?
- Any driver struggles in a bad car. Hamilton has only driven for 2 top teams, not always the best cars, but never marginal. So what does that say? He should abandon a good car to convince his detractors that he can drive a bad one too? How stupid that is.
- He breezes past slower cars thanks to DRS. True, that's what DRS does! Is he doing something illegal there?
- Yes, he can be too argumentative with his pit over the radio during races. True. He lacks to be kept informed, argue about strategy, question his team. Is that wrong? It's only known since communications were made public.
All this is pathetic nonsense really

Hamilton's track record is quite good actually, 7 WDCs, 103 Poles, 103 Wins, 182 Podiums, and that's what history will remember him for.
It's a pity when people, for whatever reasons, don't acknowledge sporting results, and don't respect those who obtain them.

You don't like the guy, that's your privilege, but at least don't try to depict him as a chancer, or an unworthy driver.
Your insistance in doing so says more about you than Hamilton.

 

Don’t worry , JJ is a lost cause. I invite you to check his post on coronavirus and you will stop engaging him


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I think I will take your advice. I can accept different opinions, but not bad faith.

Where is that post ?

 

JJ is perfectly solid in the coronavirus thread. He’s got complete command of the subject material, and does not worship at the COVID-19 alter like the typical coronabros and fanbois with their triple masks and half a dozen boosters.

 

Another great race with aggressive and clean passing. Excellent jobs by Max and Charles, bad luck for Checo. This year is shaping up to be riveting and fun to watch. It appears that Ross Brawn and his team have come up with cars that can follow and race, even if most of the passes are still DRS enabled. Not missing having to listen to Toto and Damon Hill this week. Looking forward to getting back to Australia, hoping Charles comes out on top. Forza Ferrari! Forza Charles!

 

He is equally solid on his mastery of maths and presentation of facts on Lewis


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Hamilton has great stats. Still not a goat in my books. Neither is Seb.

Am I going to get butthurt that my book is different than yours? Nope, we all have our favorites, let’s not let that be premise for personal attacks or worst, turning fiction into fact…

 

Absolutely.

This is what I was telling JJ earlier on….

My goats are senna, Michael Jordan, Carl Lewis, Barry sanders, Valentino Rossi, Tom Brady,most of those guys have gotten their records broken or will be one day.
It’s the same with Lewis. He has , virtually every record, and that is due to him, his car, era etc…
But it’s silly to go and say haha: got beat by rosberg once or whatever to denigrate his accomplishments…
Senna got beat, msc got beat, max will get beat one day etc it’s just how it is.
There will be one day a guy coming at 18 winning the title like a young tiger woods and it will then be a 25 race a season kind of thing versus 15/16 in the 80’s and 90’s… just have to accept it , stick with ur opinion and that’s it.
There is only ONE guy I know for sure is not the goat at his sports inspite his records and that is Leblame James lol


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Unworthy? No drive is unworthy unless knowingly apart of something illegal.

But stats don't always tell the full story. Look at Vettel. He looked like he was going to be the guy to tie or break Schumi's records. He'd dominate a race from pole just like Hamilton, and he looked like a god out there. But, when the PU rules shook up the order in 14', Vettel came tumbling down. When Riccardo won 3 races and he didn't win any, it went a long way to support the thesis that Vettel was not actually the fastest driver on the grid. When he went to Ferrari we saw him crumble apart, and getting beaten by Leclerc sealed the deal for many of us as to whether he was as good as his stats suggested.

That's not to say Vettel wasn't a good driver in his day. He was. Look at his maiden win with Toro Rosso. But he fell ass backwards into 4 titles, there's no way polite way of saying it. I say all this as someone that actually liked Vettel, and still do.

Hamilton isn't much different. Good driver, but his 7 titles are like Vettel's 4. He's had a dominant car and like Vettel, his overtakes came down to the huge PU advantage he's had for 8 years, not because he's been carrying the car. We've seen Hamilton in a so-so car, and he had the same struggles as Vettel. I'm putting all of the annoyances I have with Hamilton out of the equation - forget them. You can visibly see his race craft and abilities decline rabidly when he doesn't have a dominant car. He's a driver where everything has to work perfect for him to be up at the front, or else his races turn into train wrecks.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Many drivers have needed their cars to be 100% to their liking to win races. Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill, and Jacques Villeneuve, were all the same way. The only difference is that if you couldn't handle a car that wasn't dominant in their day, you had little chance of winning multiple world WDC's., whereas Hamilton and Vettel have lived in an era were you can have such a car for 5+ years straight.

Hamilton's tire management and radio games are masterful. He's been an amazing qualifier, and his wet weather skills are among the best. But his race craft, overtakes, and ability to handle pressure are as sloppy as Vettel's when he doesn't have the killer car. It's really not controversial.

 

The difference between vettel and Hamilton is that
1-Hamilton did get WDC in a car that wasn’t that year and therefore was even more so relevant than Vettel was before his peak… I’d agree Lewis made some errors under pressure but nothing compared to Vettel his last seasons at Ferrari to be truthful
2- you are assuming that he will have a similar downfall as vettel’s. It’s entirely possible& today would prove you wrong. Last week not so much…and I do think the merc team is not gonna go down without a fight.

All good points you had to be honest.

That being said I think we should re focus on the wonderful start of the season by Ferrari and the great battles we had today at the top!


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"That being said I think we should re focus on the wonderful start of the season by Ferrari and the great battles we had today at the top!"

This. The start of a very promising season, and the hope of some excellent racing.

 

So, you too you question the value of some championships; if they were gained too easily according to you.

Vettel "fell ass backwards into 4 titles", and Hamilton's 7 titles were due to "a dominant car", so not deserving according to you. Really ?

It makes you wonder who were really the best drivers during these ... 11 disastrous years where the title was constantly usurped by lucky chancers.

The F1 title winner every year is decided according rules that do not take into account the subjective parameters you are talking about.

You don't accept them, and that's your problem.

 

There was one very missed opportunity today by Ferrari.

The start. Charles should not have pushed Sainz over so hard. If he had left him enough room to slip back in ahead of Max, that could've created an early buffer that kept that latter out of the top 2 for good, or at least until after the pit stops.

It wasn't anything stupid or dirty, but the team need to use Sainz like Red Bull have used Perez.

 

I also believe that Nuvolari was the best ever. Remember that after 1933, he was stuck in significantly inferior equipment to what the Germans were bringing, and even beat them with it at the Nurburgring in 1935, arguably the greatest drive in the history of Grand Prix racing. Caracciola was a beneficiary of those great German teams.

 

Sainz not willing or ready to be #2, and judging by last year , he shouldn’t accept it just yet


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