the radiator fans will not turn on Ferrari 360

Hello, I have a problem with radiator fans that do not turn on after exceeding even 120 degrees Celsius, what could be the reason? we are talking about cooling the coolant.

 

First- why did car overheat in first place? 248f should not be catastrophic?

if this is the car w cut wires… could be fan power or control wires cut?

mid coolant properly bled no air in system?

 

I will say that everything was fine until winter and now the fans do not turn on, maybe the thermostat has broken?

 

I'm pretty sure there are Resistors for the radiators. Maybe look into that

 

what do these resistors look like?

 

https://www.eurospares.co.uk/images/catalogues/240/Large/0022.gif Look at number 4. Thats the resistor. 185543....Im not saying thats what the issue is but its something to check. I had this problem with the fans not operating correctly on my maserati and it was this resistor.

 

is there any sensor on the thermostat?

 

not sure on that

 

What year is your Ferrari? Here's the HVAC wiring diagram for a 2003 Spider

https://www.dropbox.com/t/ay2MmTjQacUFb9Ed

It's a complicated diagram. I can't find a link between the left radiator fan "13A" and the fan resistor "38A", so I don't think two fans would be affected by the resistor. Experts?

There are temperature switches "37A".

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However, it seems strange that both contacts of switch "37A" would fail.

Perhaps you could jumper the plug on the temperature switches to see if the fans start. The airconditioning system pressure switches "21B" near the receiver/dryer can also be jumpered to trigger the fans.

It was not clear in your PM if you had put power on the fans directly (to check that the fans are ok)?

 

Do the radiators get hot?

 

you have to know this before going any further.

 

Did you check the coolant level?

 

clear that the fluid is normal, today I cleaned all the contacts from the plugs, but unfortunately still unchanged. the radiator fans are certainly efficient if you connect each one separately. the fans are not hot

 

Did you check the fans resistor. This is what it looks like
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This is my process:

1. Get to the fan, apply 12V across the terminals, it runs?
2. Turn engine on, jumper across the two thermal switch connector pins, it runs?
3. Check the fuse for sign of running too hot.
4. Find the relay(s), jumper across the output pins, it runs?
5. Connect a OBD2 scanner, find the Engine Coolant temp parameter, read it while the engine is running, does it approach 190F, does the fan turn on?
6. Activate each of the fan from the scanner, does it run?

If you got to here and it still does not work, drain all the coolant. Fill it with a Airlift system. Bleed it, run it again.

There are only so many things to make a fan run: Battery, fan, fuse, relay, temp switch, coolant temp sensor, wirings, and the CPU.

 

FWIW, my fan thermal switches failed but everything else was fine. If this was a sudden occurrence, I’d look at the switches after checking to see the fans run when 12v power is applied.


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After further study of the wiring diagram, I see there are two fan resistors shown (one on each fan). Just wondering why @LorenzoR 's photo shows "1 x 4".

Just found some wiring missing for the resistor circuit in my diagram ... Now corrected in version 7

https://www.dropbox.com/t/s8qkhkMeJvRI7Zya

The resistors are basically for speed control. I'm not sure that they would stop the fans operating completely if they were faulty.

But are the radiators hot?

 

I just took that pic off the internet so he knows what to look for. yes there are 2

 

Disregard that link for an updated diagram (I got my 360 and 430 diagrams mixed up). I'll update my 360 diagram as required. I've added a few more arrows in this one to show conventional current paths:

https://www.dropbox.com/t/YKQmIk4Uydu9nxbY

After looking at the correct wiring diagram this time, I see only one resistor on the 360, but two on the 430. Are you sure about the resistors?

Here's the location of the resistor (see Item 20) on the 360 on the RH radiator.

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As stated before, a fan resistor is not going to stop the fan from operating if the engine temperatures are great enough (and the thermostat is allowing water to flow to the radiators). A single resistor is not going to affect both fans anyway. Great aircon demand may also trigger the fan (bypassing the resistor).

Unfortunately, there are multiple relays, multiple fuses and multiple signal paths. See wiring diagram. For the geeks...
The RH fan can be turned on by one of the contacts on the temperature switch on the RH radiator. In this case, the power goes through relay 27 in the forward luggage compartment and through the fan resistor. Power comes from one of the Maxi Fuses near the battery and the orange 40 amp fuse in the forward luggage compartment (behind the relay panel).
The RH fan can also be turned on by relay 40A. In this case, the resistor is not used. Similarly, power comes from one of the Maxi Fuses near the battery and the orange 40 amp fuse in the forward luggage compartment (behind the relay panel). Relay 40A is controlled by the other contact on the temperature switch on the RH radiator.
The RH fan can also be turned on by one or more of the refrigerant pressure switches near the airconditioning receiver/dryer.

The LH fan control is much simpler. It uses Relay 28 in the forward luggage compartment, the 30 amp green fuse aft of the forward luggage compartment and one of the maxi fuses near the battery. Relay 28 is controlled by one of the contacts on the temperature switch on the RH radiator.

There is a single diode in the solenoid circuits of the relays 27 and 28. I haven't figure out yet if a shorted/open diode could affect both fans.

Oddly, I can't find any input into fan control from the Motronic ECUs on the 360. Are the fans purely controlled by radiator temperature and aircon system pressure?

 

Qavion, I was basicly giving him something to look at and check. I know for certain that the resistor can cause an issue with the way the fans come on. All you have to do is look at the inside of it. Also looks like the relay is next to it so he can check that out to. My first glance at the Eurospares 360 diagram shows the resistor located at number 20 where you mentioned. I figured the other side should have one to. Usually Eurospares site indicates how many needed but i dont see that. Appears they changed their site a little. Yelcab made this alittle easier by putting up that list if items to check. Just trying to help

 

Yes, I noticed that. It's a backwards step in some senses.

I appreciate the input. I was simply trying to eliminate some of the steps/suggestions. If both fans are failing, then that would eliminate some steps. Unless, that is, there are multiple failures.

Re Yelcab's suggestions:

This has been confirmed, but I don't know if some of the vehicle wiring was used to apply 12 volts to the terminals.

I'm still not sure if this can be done on the 360. Is this done by talking to the HVAC controller or by talking to the Motronic ECUs? I only see compressor control, not fan control done by the Motronic ECU. The HVAC system tells the compressor to turn on via the RH Motronic ECU. There are refrigerant pressure switches in the wiring to the Motronic ECU, but I don't know if there is any additional logic inside the ECU.

 

Motronics don't have connections to the fans! I was a bit surprised they took this old school route but it's entirely temperature and thermistor controlled, no ECUs involved.

I'm quite tempted to hook up some ECU monitoring back into the LHS ECUs spare pins and adding some additional fault CELs just to give some ability to verify they are ok.

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Thanks for clarifying that, Trev.

I just couldn't see any links in the wiring diagrams.

 

so , the fan does have 2 speeds, because it has a resistor on it, right?
If the RH fan only works after 106 Celcious, does this mean the Thermal Switch is primary suspect? ( new temp sensor)
Does the F430 also have a sub-harness on te RH fan like the 360?

 

this is the 360's thermal switch.
I wonder what does 19 C 92 87 97 92 mean

And what signal do the 3 pin give out, if someone can explain to me

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