Something smells fishy about the nose on this car, aside from sagging bumpers.... https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-ferrari-dino-246-gt/
It kind of looks like one of those fiberglass Dinos whose molds must have been taken off a Dino with front-clip damage. Fred
i do not want to post my thoughts on the BAT auction site but to my eye the front fender flares are not as "crisp " as they appear on my dino. agree with fred with the "fiberglass " look . it may just be the photos and reflections and i'm wrong.
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login View attachment 3312468 I agree with the above comments. Here you can see the misalignment of the front clip.
I do not remember this issue at all when I saw it years ago. In person, You are looking from above, not from a perspective of 2’ off the ground. These pics definitely do not help. I am wondering a couple of things: - Were the springs/suspension adjusted to address this? - How noticeable is this in person? - If one wanted to correct this, what would one need? I am guessing nothing will ever be done. What I can’t figure out are the “front clip replacement” comments. I have no info/knowledge about how we are where we are. But IF a front clip was used, I can’t imagine it would be easy to fit “wrong”, that would actually take a ton of work. This makes no sense. I saw it just after the restoration, I guess the bigger question is what scrutiny can we comment on about the pre-restoration pictures? That might be the only key to an answer on this specific Dino. ALSO, there are comments about “stamping” out body panels. Where are those coming from? IF this is correct, I want to see these presses. Getting my popcorn....
To do it right you need accurate measurements from an undamaged original Dino. An accurate measuring plate would be extremely helpful where you could take correct accurate measurements from several points. There is definitively something off. Fixable with the right talent and resources. Image Unavailable, Please Login
It doesn't look like a suspension problem, it looks like the bodywork forward of the wheel arch is canted downward slightly. It's very strange - I've never seen a Dino that looks like that. And the bumpers point downward more than the front bodywork, which just accentuates the odd appearance.
The whole geometry of the nose looks a little off. Depending on the angle it compounds to look much worse from some perspectives. Does not look like an easy fix. Lots of Dino's have had nose damage over the years in varying degrees so it is not to say that the car was in a big hit. This added with rust damage means that a lot of Dino's are not wearing their original nose sheet metal with many earlier cars getting noses from later cars which were a little different.
It's entirely possible a prior owner had an encounter with something like a parking kerb, and whoever did the repair didn't have anything to compare against so they did their best. I mean look at what Alberto has had to deal with . Unfortunately without taking a bunch of trellis measurements in person it would be hard to know exactly what happened. But it's pretty clear what's there now isn't right, and would take time, money, and Dino experience to put right. At these recent prices though, that's starting to become a small part of the purchase cost.
Agree. I would look at this example holistically and balance the positives on what’s there ( Euro Spec, matching numbers, hopefully little rust, chassis condition, drivetrain condition etc etc) against what you’re willing to pay.
Agree, but best is for prospective buyers to do a thorough PPI for cars of this magnitude. I don't understand people buying collector cars by only looking at pictures.
Cars like this Dino are in-betweeners, where you’re paying for a restoration that maybe wasn’t complete or wasn’t correct. You have to buy it knowing you’ll enjoy it for what it is, otherwise you’re probably economically better off starting with something that you know will need for example paint and bodywork, rather than effectively paying for it twice.
That car is definitely bent. My car, had to have the nose removed 3 times and all dry fitted before the final welds. Evidently the previous owner(s) did all sorts of butchery to it. In our case it took a lot of measuring, fitting the nose, the hood, and a myriad of parts for the final flag to fall. Not for the faint hearted. For this car (BaT) to be made right, the nose HAS to come off and see what's under the skirts. I don't get it why Mohr would list this car in as-is, when it could have been repaired, or maybe they just don't care and get some advertising for a small amount. Best of luck to the buyer....if it sells, and if the reserve is lowered as this Dino has already been sentenced, and the seller knows it. Regards, Alberto
Exactly, times have changed. Many years ago when i used to go to RM or Gooding auctions the cars were parked in a special area for viewing. Even the the most avid collectors and professional restorers would take the whole 2-3 days prior to the auction to scrutinize the condition of the cars. These days most everything is online and people conduct their purchases of classic cars as if they are buying underwear , push the button as long as it looks good.
Allow me to retort -- seeing a car up close gives you the sights, sounds, (maybe), and smell of the car. However, if you're not schooled in that car, you're in no better shape than some one looking at pictures. In fact, you probably didn't have pictures of the underside and suspension. If you're lucky, someone knowledgeable happens by. But, if you weren't there when a knowledgeable person was discussing the car, you may have missed some good points. BaT generates a thread with of some pretty good comments, made by some pretty knowledgeable people. In this case, many are here on this forum. Also, with BaT you should have the time for a PPI - I don't know if that's available with a live auction. Admittedly, I didn't know as much as I should have when I bought my GTS, pre-BaT. I got stupid lucky and bought a really sound car. I doubt that it would have made much difference if I had been in person or on the internet. It's up to the buyer to learn as much as possible, listen as much as possible and when you make an emotional decision to buy the most beautiful car ever, keep your fingers crossed. Ken
For the complete front, aka the nose, to be drooping, the part in front of the doors would be a different shape as per Freeman's brilliant artwork As it appears not to be the case, it would mean that at the junction of the nose ( to me that is the part that starts mid-fender) the trellis ought to be bent from an unfriendly encounter, not properly repaired, thus the droop. Just plopped the nose right on, possibly thinking some rube would not notice, and be swooned by a pretty girl, that perhaps was not really one. It would be interesting to have a real good sample next to this one, and have your surveyors tools handy and see where the bend is at. Not a simple repair, without a chassis jig or 3rd world make-do, to put this to proper order. A pricey proposition, which ought to be undertaken by the seller, and re-proposed documenting the bad stuff. That fuse board is downright scary, inset by almost 4" so that's the drop. Another strange feature, looking under the bogus battery frame, there is a strange granular finish to the inside of the metal. This is a no sale, unless it is from one of those: oh, it is so pretty, such a car, best looking Ferrari (sic) ever, blah blah. Besides, how much BONDO is there? They ought to roll a magnet all over that nose. Stay tuned, 10 days to go, and comments will be drying up. Surprised the seller has not commented on the schnazola. Regards, Alberto PS. You are so right Ken and V12, very valid points. When I bought the 2 mongrels we have, I had not the faintest idea. Just bought the "L" as I simply liked the knock offs, I thought only an option, but nice. The 2 had been victimized, but for import procedures, it was the only way to do it. Besides, we knew fully well that it all needed a full resto. So, when aware of the shark in a pool and a good 'bangstick', no issues in jumping in.
PS. I don't think Brizio would own a car with bends. Besides, the car underwent, according to the photos, that are not necessarily from this car, a some kind of restoration. Some kind...
When I quickly saw the car on line, I did not notice the issue— clear as day there is some issue. Makes my initial over under price on the car to be quite idiotic! I will text Jon G to chime in— am curious what his visceral reaction is as to the fix and cost.
I just saw this example at European Collectibles. Not for sale yet. Looked super tight and straight. They said, I believe 23,000 original miles and mostly original paint. They’re still looking at what to price it at. I believe it will be above $500K. Interior was black leather with nice patina. They said it has its full books and tools. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
This is the first chance I've had to go through this thread. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Freeman nailed it showing the droop on the front clip. At some point the front clip must have been removed and the question is why??? The only reason to remove would be damage in my opinion. I replaced a front clip on one of the cars I restored. They come oversize and there is significant cutting and and trimming that has to be done to get the clip to fit right. My guess and it's only a guess is that there was some sort of damage that required a new clip. If you look further to bolster my claims the fiberglass tub has been modified and the fuse panel is about 4" further to the rear then it should be. Again why was this done. All could be fixed but would require $$$ to fix. Who knows where the price will settle out on BAT as it seems there is a lot of money chasing about anything.
If everything told to you is accurate, it will sell immediately. AND THAT PRICE IS WAY LOW… I like the description of “super tight and straight”, but always get scared when I hear “mostly original paint”. Having seen original paint cars before, people think one thing (perfect) and have a completely different reaction in person. And that is NOT POSITIVE. Original paint is better than “Fresh”, where it is easy to hide stuff. I finally gave up and looked for a really older repaint, as I can to learn that made it almost impossible to hide stuff. Just my thoughts. I am emailing them now.
Despite the issues, I would find it hard to believe that this car would sell for less than $400K— my proverbial two cents.