We have an Ace | Page 12 | FerrariChat

We have an Ace

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by ralfabco, Feb 25, 2022.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
    It proceeded the highlighted route.

     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  2. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
    US to give helicopters to Ukraine.

     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Plus 155 mm howitzers and ammo. Those can actually outrange ships armed with 5" guns, especially if we send them some sabot rounds.

    Withdrawal of their ships from vulnerability to cruise missiles means less anti-air support for Russian troops. Moskva's primary role was long range anti-air and C&C, and that capability is lost to them now. She provided air cover for the entire Black Sea fleet and was never designed to support amphibious operations or shore bombardment.
     
    Flavio_C, Jaguar36 and Texas Forever like this.
  4. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    26,115
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    Fascinating Twitter thread about Ukrainian tactics in sinking the Moskva...



    Apparently, the Moskva had two main radars, a long range phased array and a shorter range low power radar (maybe so they don't conflict?). The long range radar only has 180 degrees of coverage, while the short range radar is 360. The Ukrainians had a Bakratyr drone in the air, which was a threat to the Moskva and was probably distracting the long range radar in the opposite direction from the Neptune missiles.

    Because the seas were fairly high, the short range radar couldn't distinguish the low flying missiles from the wave tops.

    Really smart.
     
    Flavio_C, ralfabco, Jaguar36 and 2 others like this.
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Don- Affirmative, her radars were fairly old tech, even though she was refitted in 2010. The phased array radar is likely a planar array where beam shaping is electronic, but scanning was mechanical. The short range radar was probably even lower tech. Much of Russia's defense budget was diverted rather than being used to improve capability.
     
    DBomb117 likes this.
  6. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    This stuff is way beyond me and I'm glad that somebody knows what is going on.
     
  7. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
    Hit by 2 missiles. Sank under tow.
     
  8. BJK

    BJK F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    5,488
    Location:
    CT
    Russian Ministry of Defence statement: “The cruiser ship Moskva lost its stability when it was towed to the port because of the damage to the ship’s hull
    that it received during the fire from the detonation of ammunition. In stormy sea conditions, the ship sank.”
    .
     
  9. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
  10. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    26,115
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    The "under tow" thing seems a bit unlikely to me. The Turks rescued some of the sailors and then it sank almost right away, so I don't think it was under tow for long, if at all.

    The fact that the Turks had to rescue the sailors is interesting-- where were the Moskva's support ships?
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Moskva was the only nuclear-capable ship in the current Black Sea fleet, so one less way Putin can use a tactical nuke. No telling whether she had any onboard. Speculation now. The Turks have essentially shut down the Dardanelles and Bosphorous straits to warships so Moskva will not be replaced.

    Russians are repositioning their Black Sea fleet to prevent a reoccurrence. Makes it more irrelevant to the war now. Further deployment of long-range cruise missiles from the coast near Odessa could make Crimea untenable for the Russians under wartime conditions. Russians crossing their feet to save bullets.
     
  12. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    24,089
    Location:
    In the past
    Full Name:
    Jim
    My FIL had a PhD in math. Back in the 80's he did a lot of work on algorithms to reduce the radar clutter due to waves. This was for the Navy to help combat sea-skimming missiles.

    My FIL spoke, and wrote in, a language that involved a bunch of funny characters. Way over my head.
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    I was an electronic warfare officer in USAF while a WSO in F-111s. We had to be knowledgeable about radars as part of the job. Chem/math helped, but not all EWOs had tech degrees.
     
    DBomb117 likes this.
  14. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
  15. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    26,115
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    Is that because the Russians are supplying Crimea by sea?

     
  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Don- Affirmative and now they have lost one major combatant and one troop/supply transport. That is one reason Putin wanted the land bridge from Russia in case ship traffic was interdicted and why they are all in on Mariupol. We need to sneak some Harpoons or something more advanced to the Ukrainians. A couple more losses and Crimea turns pretty useless as Russia's primary Black Sea port.
     
  17. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
    Britain supplied them already.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10697657/Britain-send-anti-ship-missiles-armoured-vehicles-Ukraine-Putins-offensive-ramps-up.html
     
  18. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,859
  19. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,879
    Location:
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Mark Smith
    ^ This is why Ukraine needs better air defense systems.
     
    Flavio_C likes this.
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The Russians never invested too much in WRSK (war readiness spares kits) or PGM inventories so we can expect to see a steady decline in Russian air force effectiveness from lack of weapons and lack of aircraft availability. Note that is not just the Russians, but also applies to our NATO allies. Every time our allies got in a fight, they quickly ran out of PGMs and we had to resupply them. PGM inventories are expensive, as are WRSK, and the US has been the only nation really taking them seriously, except maybe the Chinese. We have little insight into Chinese inventories.
     
    donv likes this.
  21. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    24,089
    Location:
    In the past
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Not sure I would call that carpet-bombing, but it does have its uses, although not on civilian areas. The US put it to good use during the Vietnam War.
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The BUFFs scared the crap out of the Iraqis during Desert Storm. They could not hit anything from 45,000', but a string of bombs a hundred yards wide and a quarter of a mile long from a clear blue sky with little to no sound freaked them out. Those drops were all out in the desert, though. We would have been hung for targeting civilian areas.
     
  23. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    Yes, over the jungle and the Ho Chi Min trail. Not innocent civilians.
     
  24. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    24,089
    Location:
    In the past
    Full Name:
    Jim
    It really depends on whether you end up being the winner. The winner determines who gets hung. Plenty of carpet bombing of civilian areas in WWII.
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,170
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Not in Desert Storm. We knew we were going to win, and we still would have been hung. They even saved some of our video to see if a war crime had been committed. None were from our unit.
     

Share This Page