I don't know what to buy.

Hi everyone,

First of all, I hope everyone is having a great day, and I hope this is the correct thread for this type of post. Long time motorsport enthusiast and Ferrari fan, as I am almost certain most of you also are (so I am in great company ). Let's get to the topic on hand.

I have been a BMW driver for the past few years, driving M3's and M4's. Although they have been fun cars, I have decided enough with that front-engine mounted, overweight nonsense! As much as I would love to join you guys in the Ferrari world, I, unfortunately, did not pay enough attention while I was in school, so I am stuck in the lower class world of Porsches and Lotus' when it comes to mid-engine cars (only kidding to my Porsche friends, but serious about my budget ).

I briefly considered the supercharged Emira because that seems pretty exciting, but there are too many unknowns with Lotus quality, and quite frankly, the Toyota sourced V6 and IPS transmission is somewhat off-putting.

I am currently on allocation to receive a Porsche GT4. This car checks a lot of boxes for me. It is naturally aspirated! I love that. It is lightweight and is ready to take to the track out of the box. It has some downfalls, like not much noise and excitement at low RPMs, but I am afraid these are problems that I will have to deal with in a sub $130K budget. Even so, the noise can eventually be corrected.

Lately, I have been considering a used F430, but I have not entirely sold that idea to myself. The reliability issues don't completely put me off, but the expenses of having it as a track car (which is something I will be doing), are slightly concerning.

All of these different thoughts have me in a bit of a funk. It seems like nothing is truly exciting to me right now. I am currently sports car-less since I sold my M4 earlier this year, and I don't have any resolution in sight. What I really want to do is bet it all on black and win enough to buy a 458 or a Pista and join you knuckleheads on the track every weekend until the sun comes down, but that's a pipe dream if I have ever seen one.

I know this has been quite a long post, so I do appreciate you very much for reading through my own personal Odyssey here! With all of that said, what thoughts and opinions do my fellow Ferrari friends have for me? Thanks again for everyone's time!

 

I've had 3 Porsches, 2 Ferraris...A GT4 is a great choice, but the driver's cars that really inspire me and could be had for your budget:

Ferrari 328
Porsche 964/993 NA
Porsche 914/6

The GT3 RS will be double your budget, as will a 512 TR. All of these cars are loud, simple, relatively light and great to drive.

As a longtime motor sports fan myself, I've drifted back to the Porsche world. IMHO, no other company builds a better track car, and classic Porsches are still daily drivable while holding value or appreciating. I know you're kidding, but Porsche values are through the roof. A nice 964/965 Turbo just brought $415K on Bring-A-Trailer. Overpriced maybe, but that's the "lower class" world of Porsche.

 

Bullfighter - Thank you for taking the time to read my thread and replying to it. I appreciate your insight very much, as you have experience in both the Porsche and Ferrari world. The 328 seems intriguing but a bit older than I previously considered. How do you believe that fares against an F430 or even a 360? The other two Porsches are also very cool, truly classic cars in terms of Ferdinands designs. I can tell you have a taste for the late 80's early 90s. Thank you again for your time!

 

A 328 is definitely slower and has no driver aids. An F430 is certainly more competitive, but I imagine it would be an expensive track toy. Will defer to F430 owners for this…

I like classic Porsches because they’re fast, tough and simple.

But again a GT4 is fantastic. Not a choice to second guess!


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"If he dies, he dies"

Just had to say it-

Hey Ivan- Much like Bullfighter I'm a Porsche owner/enthusiast as well as Ferrari. And FWIW my SO has a Lotus Elise so love those as well.

There really is no debate that the most options and bang for the buck from both purchase and maintenance costs- especially if you plan to use the car for both road and regular track use- is Porsche.

That said, like many/most on here the Ferrari desire burns deep. If your conundrum did not involve regular track use then the Ferrari options at $130Kish are plentiful- nice 360s (even gated- but not for long) can be had for that- nice but driven F1 430s can be had for that but will take all of your $130k with no buffer for maintenance- much less track prep and additional maintenance. 355s are off the scale right now and have fairly high maintenance costs. 328s as Bullfighter suggested would be a great option but are also quite desirable and should you have an "off" on track parts/panels can be costly.

So- If I were you and working with your budget I would suggest a 360 F1 Modena that has some miles on it and perhaps a few owners but good overall maintenance history. This could be had for around $80-90k- modern Ferrari- generally quite dependable and relatively reasonable to maintain- they made a lot of them so parts are very available and reasonable- lots of independent techs can work on them as well as dealers- insanely fun cars to drive on the street and very track capable- most have steel brakes so replacing pads/rotors is not costly since that is a big track consumable- spending $85kish to get one leaves you with $40kish for "reserve" funding for track consumables as well as extra maintenance and possible unexpected expense should you overcook a corner- finding one is pretty easy if you are somewhat open on color/interior spec.

So- that is my advice FWIW- Lots of expertise on here so take my thoughts for what they are - I'm sure others will chime in.

Good luck- Cheers

 

Very good points. Maybe I am second-guessing something I should not be. Part of it is the possibility of never actually getting the allocation, I suppose. Being sports car-less has put too much time on my hands, and being blessed with this car disease has driven me insane; spending countless hours looking at videos and browsing various car forums looking at what to get.

Hey Shorn,

First of all, Apollo's corner should have thrown in the towel. His blood is on their hands!

You and your SO certainly have all the bases covered with Ferrari, Porsche, and Lotus! BTW, there are certainly many aspects of the Lotus that I like. It has hydraulic steering and double-wishbone suspension, which I did not mention in my original post. I think the Emira is really cool. Eventually, I think they will produce a GT model, and that will probably be something I will go after. It's just hard for me to purchase a car that no one has seen or reviewed yet, and it hasn't come out of the factor of a major company (if that makes sense).

In regards to your post about the 360 F1 Modena. That is a very intriguing prospect. I hadn't really considered that car before. I was originally turned off by reliability, in regards to headers and some other posts I had read some time ago, but that is a rather foolish thing to do. I should revisit the 360 forum and educate myself properly before I make opinions. In fact, that is my entire purpose on this forum in the first place. I appreciate you bringing this car to my attention as somehow I have put it in the back of my mind and not really considered it. It's definitely a much older car than I typically would buy, but then again, I typically don't buy Ferraris (never bought one before as you know), so there is a lot for me to educate myself on in this regard.

Thank you for your time Shorn, and thank you for making me consider something new (that is actually old ).

 

Yes - Apollo should have never been in the ring! But Bridgette was a pretty hot Russian

Totally makes sense on the Emira - I built one on the configurator and sent it to my SO - Was immediately refuted with a "AYFKM I would never get rid of my Elise" response - That said she is on the hunt for an Esprit - She wants a Black Esprit to play Basic Instinct - works for me

Yeah the 360 should definitely be on your consideration list. I had a 2000 for a while and it was flawless - blast to drive and never had an issue other than a leaky AC compressor - F1 trans was sloppy compared to today's DCTs but heck what isn't. I would think it would make for a great street/track car and get you into Ferrari ownership quickly and without selling a kidney - You can always move up/change as you go - 360s have spiked for manuals but F1s are still pretty flat on the depreciation schedule so you won't lose a lot of money and will always have something of predictable value should you want to trade out or up. Plus, they are and will continue to benefit from them being NA and having amazing sound (mine had a Tubi on it and it made the hair stand up on your arms) versus the 488+ turbos which are amazing cars but many don't like the sound.

Anyway - Good luck - Keep us posted - Cheers

 

Tom Papadopoulos at Autosport Design has a back one in inventory, fyi.

 

I've gone through two sports car-less periods and yes, it is like any addiction -- withdrawal is hard.

Among modern cars the GT4 would be one of the best. GT4 RS... but good luck getting one anytime soon, anywhere near MSRP. Used GT3s are just too expensive now, and I don't see them dropping in price.

I love the classic Porsches so would keep an eye out for something cool, 1987-1998. But you've got to do what you enjoy.

 

Based on your username, might I suggest a black Lamborghini Jalpa?

 

I recently sold my beloved 328 GTS and was looking for a new ride. Wanted a 430 Scuderia but prices went a bit too up for my budget. Then was about to purchase a 599 but the one I liked was snapped up by someone ticker than me. Looked at 911s, various M3s, and finally purchased a Lotus 430 Cup. Getting in and out it’s a real pain, but it makes my Challenge Stradale feeling like a Bentley. Really fun driving. Maybe you should give it a try, if that’s the kind of driving experience you may enjoy. Oh wait, if you’re in the US it’s illegal…. Not 100% sure…

 

Oh Jeez - That could be dangerous - Thanks for the tip - Will check it out - Cheers

 

Movies need to bring back montages.... and tough men crying while driving

 

Yep- Especially driving Lambos

 

Shorn - I tried to sell my wife on a 458 by using the line in your signature, and she said something to the effect of "Well, you can't drive or have sex with a couch, and that's the way you are headed". Which isn't as creative as your signature, and I think there is probably a way to do both if you are creative enough, but I understand the gist of it.

With that option off the table (given my negotiation skills), I have fallen back to the GT4. I don't think the time is right for a used car. Eventually, the market will simmer back down, which will be a better time to go after an F430. Even so, there is no guarantee I will be able to allocate a GT4. I am on the list at two dealerships, and even though I have been told that I am not far off at one of them (allegedly number 4 on the list), we will see how true that is. On Wednesday, Porche announced pricing for MY23, and significantly raised pricing compared to previous years. I understand why, but it's still upsetting because, well, I like my money as much as they like my money. I will continue to keep you guys updated.

Thanks, everyone for your time so far, and the laughs that have come with this thread!

 

I actually sort of liked the Jalpa, even if the build quality was something less than barely mediocre. Proper old school exotic and makes a Countach seem common.


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The GT4 is not a consolation prize. It’s among the best driver’s cars on the market. Pre-congratulations on it.

As to used cars… that’s all I buy. My 964 has needed some catch-up maintenance, but I have exactly the car I wish Porsche would make now. You can study the evolution of a particular model line (356/911, mid-engined V8 Ferrari, etc.) and pick your personal sweet spot.

I can list right now my top three life-changing drives: 328 at Ferrari of Denver in 2004; 1973 1/2 911T and 1962 Porsche 356B coupe. In each case the experience was a 100 percent focus on the moment. For the 356, it was at the time the oldest car I’d driven, and my expectations were extremely low. But after the dealer tossed me the key and told me to take it for a drive, I was impressed with everything from the seating position to the feel of the controls, not to mention the sounds and smells. It was so evocative of vintage racing. A real sports car. If you want to know what’s great about Porsche, a 356 will make it clear.

So… new cars are nice because nothing is worn out, and you do get a warranty and service loaner. But if you find the car that checks all the boxes for you, that’s the right car. If a 246 gets you weak at the knees, and you’d rather study the curves or watch the gauges than see any movie, then IMHO that’s the happiness you should buy. The only racing that matters is your pulse.



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GT4 is an absolutely phenomenal car- I planned to order one brand new when they came out and then my GT3 Touring came along out of nowhere- At my Ferrari dealer no less- so could not say no to that.

You will love the GT4- and won't have to sleep on the couch

 

With supply chain problems currently mucking up new and used car prices, I'm doubtful that any premium you might pay over MSRP for a new GT4 could be recovered at resale. If that math doesn't upset you, then you probably have a clear path to buying the Porsche. I've had six Boxsters, and they dance around corners like a ballerina, whereas the 911 bullied its way through turns and bends. Nevertheless, the Porsche brand will make you enjoy driving again, regardless of the model chosen.

 

Thank you for the response. I was lucky enough to get both waitlists at MSRP. There are only a few of these dealers out there from what I’ve found (I spent an afternoon working up an excel sheet and calling around - I found about 5). As you would expect, most of the non ADM dealers have ridiculously long waitlists, but surprisingly, not all of them. The one I have a deposit with has MSRP in writing, so I’m hoping that holds firm.

 

Those cars certainly made an impact on you, as you are able to vividly recall the experience all these years later. You would be an excellent SA, haha. Thanks for reassuring me on the GT4. It’s full steam ahead. Choo choo.

The GT4 train is in full speed. Allocations are expected to come in this week, so fingers crossed on that. I can see why you didn’t pass up the GT3 opportunity, given it came it at your Ferrari dealer. Honestly, I don’t think I would be able to pass up a GT3 Touring if it came in to a Honda dealer. Such a fantastic car.

Thanks again guys, I appreciate it. I will update this thread accordingly. Hopefully I will have some good news this week! Enjoy your Sunday, my friends!

 

Lotus’ are bulletproof, Toyota engine very reliable. Easy answer to tranny - get the manual. I can’t wait for mine in October!

Get the 458. Dreams come true.


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It’s more about waiting for parts when something happens. I’ve heard about owners waiting 6-12 months for headlights that have failed. This would be a daily driver, so that’s unacceptable. I’m not worried about the engine or transmission failing.

 

With that said, I think the Emira will be a wonderful car. I suspect you will be very pleased with it. The only reason I coughed up my FE slot a few months ago was because I really wanted to go the naturally aspirated route more than anything (although that supercharger sounds pretty good!).

Once the 458 prices come back into reality, I don’t see any circumstance where I am not all over it like white on rice. Excited for you to get your Emira. Post pics and do a review on here if you can!