Hamilton deserves more respect | Page 145 | FerrariChat

Hamilton deserves more respect

Discussion in 'F1' started by Natkingcolebasket69, Mar 28, 2021.

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  1. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    IMO his biggest hurdle in his comeback was the Pirelli's gave him completely the opposite of what he asks from a car, and Mercedes was incapable of building the strong front end he wanted. I'm sure the motivation was still there, but age + that neck injury offer it's limitations. He could've easily called it quits in 2010 and no one would blame him. He felt he owed it to Mercedes to help them prepare as much as possible, so he did (Michael drove for Mercedes in Sports Cars and paid Eddie Jordan for his opportunity at Spa).
     
  2. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    +1 excellent post
     
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  3. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    #3603 jpalmito, Apr 30, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2022
    Didn’t know that.
    This a fact all of this world championships cars were all designed by Rory Byrne with very specific characteristics.
    Sometimes very tricky cars to set up like the Benetton B195 ( just ask Johnny Herbert) or the undriveable Ferrari F310.
    Nevertheless I tend to believe that his bike accident was unconsciously decisive for his intrinsic speed.
     
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  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Most eye opening was when Alesi and Berger came from Ferrari to drive Benetton, and they both had a few goes in Schumachers championship winning cars. Neither could understand how Michael won a championship in that car. Both actually crashed the benetton several times! Here's a quote from Berger, and then later a chat between Damon and Michael in 2000:

    And that's Berger saying that...a guy that hopped from team to team year after year, never having any real trouble driving anything...yet the Benetton he found impossible!

    I always chuckle at the fact that "michael had #2's", as if that was the reason why he won so many titles and races. The reality was, everyone was a #2 next to Michael. Had Schumacher stayed in 2007 he probably would've beaten Kimi (who struggled a lot more on the switch to Bridgestones than people remember, same for Alonso). Schumachers tyre problem came with Pirelli.
     
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  5. JJ

    JJ F1 World Champ

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  6. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Great quotes!
    Interestingly, the now departed KTU on this forum as quoted many times Berger as saying Hamilton is one of the best ever.
    He recently reiterated that Hamilton is to him second best ever.
    That’s high praise from someone that raced with senna, Schumacher and so forth.
    His opinion of course but makes me chuckle when some folks on this forums rate the Brit as simply being average… at best;)

    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1590353/lewis-hamilton-ayrton-senna-gerhard-berger-f1-news/amp


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  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    They're all various levels of incredible in their own right. I rate Hamilton very highly (top 10 all time), just not as high as some....and many of those then start pointing fingers and making up insane statements as to why I must think that Lewis is not the greatest. IMO many of his fans do a very good job making Lewis more unlikeable than he perhaps is.

    Back to Berger, here are a few more quotes directly from his book. Interesting is the last quote, which is explains he had a bit of a feud going with Michael for a while...these small things can always (subconsciously even) adjust ones' rankings:

    This is Gerhard Bergers description of his first days at Benetton in 1996, from his book "Zielgerade" (Translated).

    Some pages later he said with regard to his little feud with Michael he had at that time:

    An eye opener and very interesting for sure...And then with Michael having driven the V12 Ferrari, his opinion was "damn, winning the title would've been easier for me in this car!"...he loved the torque of the engine, allowing him to manipulate the car. .I wonder how far he could've come with the F310 had it been a V12 for another year...
     
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  8. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Damn I need this book! Sounds like a great one!


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  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    A driver with more than 100 victories and poles would never be rated as average.
    He’s a great driver but not worth of a top 10 in my modest book.
     
  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #3611 william, Apr 30, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2022
    Michael Schumacher liked his car to have the front well planted and accepted the rear to be loose. He certainly convey that preference to the designers, and himself set up his car to have that characteristic. He needed to trust the front and learnt to take care of snap oversteer better then most; one could say it was one of his skills that stood him among his peers. Schumacher anticipated the reactions of his car where others would have been intimidated by them. Thus his cars must have felt diabolical for anyone no warned.

    Prost, in the opposite, prefered understeering, saying it was less treacherous and easier to control. In the extreme, underseering can be quite unsettling for some drivers. When he came to McLaren, Keke Rosberg didn't like at all the way Prost and Lauda had directed the designers, and had problem to extract the most of his car. Also Prost used to put more brake balance towards the rear than most; I heard Lausa commenting on that in one of his interviews.
     
  11. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Well for me it’s
    1-Senna
    2-Schumacher
    3-Prost
    4-Nelson piquet junior hahah kidding

    For me it’s hard after Prost. There are some guys I have never seen like Clark and fangio, guys like Lauda and piquet I have not seen enough of…
    Guys like Alonso who made bad career choices…
    Hamilton is in the mix.

    Overrated to me:
    -Hakkinen- fast, mistake prone, Michael was very close to beat him in 98 in an inferior car, very inferior
    -Damon Hill
    -Vettel
    -Rosberg-father and son

    Really - Michael could have had 8, 9 titles easy


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  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't think those are overrated, but appreciated at their right value.

    - I don't remember Mika as mistake prone but on race skill, he was as good as Schumacher, IMO.

    - Like his father, Damon Hill wasn't a "natural", both worked very hard to get to speed.

    - Vettel is a mystery to me. He was good for 4 years, and then went stale. Since 2013, he lives on his reputation.

    - Rosberg was unfortunate to have Hamilton as team mate when he got hold of a good car.
     
  13. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Mika was good but not Schumacher good, his titles were on a much much better McLaren… with comparable machinery I’d not have given him any chance…

    Agree on vettel


    One guy that never won anything and I never understood why he was kept so long was coulthard…
    Sometimes he was fast, next race slow and making mistakes… I could see potential in him but …


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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Coulthard was an average driver, a good #2 I think, who got on well with his team mates.

    He drove for the 2 top teams at the time, for Frank Williams and Ron Dennis who knew about fighting inside a team.
     
  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Wolff is "protecting" Hamilton amidst his struggles.

    Pay no mind to Russell, he knows what he's doing in a crappy car.
     
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Understandable in view of the money they have invested on him !

    It has to be said that Mercedes let him down this year.
     
  17. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    That is true. He knows or hopes Lewis stays motivated and that he can turn it around.
    So far he got beaten badly twice and even 2 other races. Next race is going to be important


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  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO Toto wants to avoid a situation where Hamilton gets fed up, slams the door and leaves.

    There is a situation to negotiate there to preserve both Mercedes' image and Hamilton's legacy.

    Toto must still hope that the car will be improved this year.
     
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  19. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I agree


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  20. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    I'll be fair, and agree.

    That W13 is a dog turd so far. No downforce and steers like a ship. Yes, Russel is coping better with it, but the age difference is helping him. The porpoising is physically beating the drivers up, and I'd be willing to bet it's affecting Hamilton worse. Depth perception, vision, all of that stuff changes when a car is a physical monster like that.
     
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  21. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    The W13 is garbage. They'll be lucky to win even one or two races with it by sure luck and strategy.

    That having been said, Hamilton owes it to Mercedes to see out his contract. They provided him a championship car for 8 straight years, where in a few of them anybody could've won the title in his equipment. Walking away a year early and not proving he can do well enough to at least podium still, won't be a good look for him.

    Hamilton has beaten by teammates before. Button and Rosberg did it. Russel doing it too will put Hamilton in the same regard as Vettel to many, in that he's not as good as his 7x WDC he was able to get, with the team he was.

    What Hamilton shouldn't do is do like Vettel and keep staying waaaaay past his prime.
     
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  22. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    The argument that he got beaten by those 2 guys is valid but tired and trying to lower him.
    All the greats got beaten. Period.
    Hamilton isn’t vettel; if u check vettel’s 4 great years even then he was making tons of mistakes but car was so fast they didn’t matter.
    Hamilton never made ,imo, the same amount of mistakes. He made some for sure but vettel is like benny hill these days.


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  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't believe in miracles. Even if they make this year's Mercedes driveable, I don't think it will compete for a win.

    Hamilton experiences the same dilemma any top sportman faces: knowing when to stop.
     
  24. Barrylindon

    Barrylindon Karting

    Mar 20, 2021
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    Don't get this, why is he at fault for receiving hate tweets?

    By the most liked comments on that article, seems British people also hate his guts. I guess the BLM stuff made him very unpopular everywhere.
     
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