These systems very rarely come up for sale and when they do, they command a very high price, I am aware of 2 systems that have sold for well north of £100k. I am also aware of several owners looking for complete systems or parts of the system to complete what they have already. There was a time when the OEM exhaust systems were regularly swapped out for sports exhaust systems and the original system was discarded or got separated from the car over time. Hence why there are more cars around now with aftermarket exhausts than OEM exhausts available. The system for sale by DKEng on the Instagram link looks to be missing a vital component the... pair of catalysts. Fortunately for anyone needing a set of Catalysts, or to complete the above system I have a perfect set for sale: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294657679987?hash=item449af76273:g:41UAAOSwnBdgRUP2 Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Oh, many people care about having all the correct ancillaries correct, particularly on an F50 given how unique the full set includes.
In current times, no F50 with original exhaust system present would go on sale without mentioning it.
That is right. But the latter is more letting it be known that they possess such an exhaust system (rather than selling it) and the former is not selling if the rumoured asking price of £4.8m is correct.
So if the original exhaust is missing, the new owner can buy the one from DK https://www.instagram.com/p/CdGKpqeohqv/? plus DK's F50 cats https://www.instagram.com/p/CdIaVDjI4PX/? and then everyone is happy. To be fair, some of today's best examples have received the benefit or refurbishment and the return to original components, so there's no reason why the Hartley car can't benefit from the same if desired. As for the F50 ladies silk scarf, the seller doesn't claim it as an original item and in fact states that they've previously never seen one with an F50 before. One can only assume that DK Engineering's parts department are in the business of selling such components as their advert clearly suggests https://www.instagram.com/p/CdGKpqeohqv/? with the clear statement Original Ferrari F50 Exhaust System now in stock, so it seems odd that their post is just to show they have such a unit but don't intend to sell it as they aren't known for playing games. Those who passed on this famous F50 when it was at $3m now have another opportunity to buy it at $4.5m, meanwhile this one also has a sports exhaust system in place and if the original is missing I don't think that'll stop it selling, it's only the overall price that can.
Point was whether Hartley’s car come with an original exhaust and it not being mentioned rather than whether it can be bought separately
Assuming is good but knowledge is better. Maybe you can try and buy it to ascertain for yourself. I tried with six figures but it did not work. DK buy F50s (currently two) themselves and as many come without original exhaust, it is not a bad step to secure and find an exhaust system to stock (after a long period of searching) for when it can be added to a car without original system. Not bad either to add it to their parts’ site meanwhile just in case somebody will offer a price that is irresistible. Nothing with playing games there - just good planning if you buy and sell F50s as they are doing.
All due respect Karim, I understand your point, my point is that if Hartley's car doesn't come with the original exhaust, it's not the end of the world, one can be acquired just as has happened with a number of cars that now have original exhausts back on in recent times only because the perception is that'll bring them more money for sale. No assumptions whatsoever Karim, you are right knowledge is better, so, please receive the knowledge that that we have been in contact with Jordan @ DK and have been formally offered their OEM exhaust system https://www.instagram.com/p/CdGKpqeohqv/? for a fixed price £100,000, plus, for an additional £10,000 we can have the OEM catalytic converters https://www.instagram.com/p/CdIaVDjI4PX/ as well, I have this in writing and can post it here if you like. Given the values that F50s are commanding today IMO this pricing is relative, so my client is considering it favorably. Meanwhile I've known DK known for 33 years since 1989 when my Supercar involvement begun, that's why I said it seems odd to advertise parts which as you suggest are only for sale subject to offer for some unknown 'irresistible' price, that's playing games IMO, however, the good news is, as I have ascertained, that's not the case. Additional obvious knowledge I should point out, the Supercar world is quite small. There is a big deal being made about F50 original exhausts these days. Here's my professional opinion: A good F50 will sell for the right price, with or without the original exhaust. There are as many OEM exhausts out there as there are F50s as the cars were all supplied by Ferrari SpA with standard units, with this in mind, more and more of these units are being found, this motivated by the fact that the cars have increased in value. We recently sourced a complete set for a longtime F50 owner here in the USA, it was sitting on a warehouse shelf gathering dust and someone contacted me to find out what the components were worth. Along those lines, I was just speaking to another client and F50 owner who purchased his F50 from us around 7 years ago with the OEM unit in boxes, and who reads this thread, here's his view today about F50 OEM exhausts with some much-needed humor: "Joe, I love the sound the Tubi headers and exhaust makes on my F50, so much better than the quiet OEM unit so I'm keeping them on. If you ever come over and see the OEM exhaust on the car, it's ready for you to sell!"
As a lot of various issues are covered, Joe, so here is my personal take on the F50 original exhaust: They are an essential part of an original F50 They are extremely difficult to find (that is why many F50s are sold without them installed or available with the car). The jury is still out for me that even if offered the £110k, whether DK will part with their system If found, and currently to my knowledge only DK is advertising a system in addition to Mark’s cats, they are extremely expensive. It’s £135k for the DK one (£110k including the cats) and it’s missing the full air injection system (pump, tubing, valves). So that will make it $140k to $150k. Quite a sum for an exhaust. If I had the money to buy an F50 today and found an appropriate one missing the original exhaust, then in my offer I would surely deduct that sum from the value of an equivalent car with original exhaust (plus a similar additional sum as a further discount for the fact that they are so hard to find) As to the sound, each of the Tubi, straight pipes, and original system have their own magic and drawbacks
I think a set of original spec tyres are far more essential for a discerning F50 owner if they currently have lambo spec tyres on their car not an issue I know for you Karim having heard about your stash of them https://www.onlincenter.com/archive/New-Set-Of-Original-Ferrari-F50-Goodyear-Eagle-F1-Gs-fiorano-Tires/e6gpmpvnuvpuovq.html
With a small break on this Ferrari Friday, I wanted to take time to respond more completely to all your bullet-points: * Not everyone wants to pay up for a supposedly original F50, I am currently assisting a gentleman locate a car that has lots of miles which he can acquire at a lower price point, and frankly he's hoping it already has a sports exhaust. * I can't speak for you or anyone else's experience, but for us, DK's jury reached a verdict and I've posted the written judgement above, if my client is interested, £110k takes it all. * F50 exhausts are being found by others besides DK without being advertised, I posted such a scenario I was involved in above where the cost was a fraction of £110k, however, based on what F50 owners believe their cars are worth, DK's price is relative, and I feel sure someone who's willing to part with $4m or more for an F50 can swing the cost of an OEM exhaust too if the car doesn't come with one - my point about the Hartley car or 99999. A good car will sell if the overall price is right in the market, the lack of an OEM exhaust may of course affect the price but it will not make the car unsaleable. If I could buy an F50 today where the lack of an OEM exhaust meant a £110k discount to me, I'd take it at the discount, enjoy it with the Tubi, and let the next guy worry about finding an OEM exhaust if he wants to. * IMO the F50's glorious V12 sound is enhanced with the Tubi system, this is widely-accepted and is the reason why so many F50s had their original units removed in the first place! Simply put, the cars sound better with a sport exhaust, these thoughts are ditto for 288 GTO, F40, and Enzo as well. Besides the beautiful sound afforded by a Tubi (Ansa for the 288), the cars run a bit better, a tad cooler, and are slightly lighter, all good things. From what I see amongst those I know who own F50s, cars that tend to be enjoyed and driven have the Tubi, whereas those that are static or Concours display cars don't, IMO the latter and resale value are the only reason to have the OEM exhaust on.
In perhaps more exciting news, the famed 103496 is nearing the end of it's restoration in California back to it's original Rosso Barchetta livery, one of the few F50s that left Maranello in that gorgeous dark red color. As is already known, this F50 was sold to Ian Hetherington, a man who would preferred race his F40 and F50, so he campaigned the later in the Goodyear Maranello Ferrari Challenge and the Pirelli Maranello Ferrari Challenge, with multiple race-winning success. I'm not sure any other F50 ever won a sanctioned race. Images by Edwin van Nes of Ian and 103496 in the Goodyear Maranello Ferrari Challenge, 3rd - 4th July 1999 at Zandvoort, Netherlands. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
103496 then went to the famed USA Ferrari collector the late Preston Henn and was painted Giallo Modena. After Henn passed away, this F50 with a life well-lived has received a well-deserved painstaking restoration, beautiful Rosso Barchetta paint was applied to the bodywork just a few weeks ago, and yes, the weave will be seen. Image Unavailable, Please Login
My understanding is that there are about 8 F50s finished by Ferrari SpA in the stunning Rosso Barchetta FER 312, I'm sure Marcel will help with the correct number if there are more. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here's a comparison from 2 separate images just to give you an idea, Rosso Barchetta FER 312 versus Rosso Corsa FER 300/12. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
From my own past experience in gathering various bits and pieces for a project, in the Ferrari world nothing was thrown away, if the owner did not want to retain it, the remover certainly did!. I found all sorts of items, stashed in a wide variety of places gathering dust. When we purchased an F40 Tubi there were vast numbers of cast off original F40 mufflers on ebay, £400 bought you a good one, seems these days you could add another zero on the end as many owners now want to swap back.
