Derek's 308 engine rebuild | Page 18 | FerrariChat

Derek's 308 engine rebuild

Discussion in '308/328' started by derekw, Oct 16, 2016.

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  1. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    As some of you know, I’m in Central London with nowhere to keep the 308 so it has been in storage in a Kent garage with the petrol-heads there doing a bit of tinkering when they have time. They were getting frustrated so I moved it to QV London where Mike quickly figured out the main issue— I’d put one bank of cams in upside down! Because there are no timing notches on the new CAT cams and I’d been in a hurry to finish and get the engine in before leaving Canada, I had one bank 180 degrees off.

    Thankfully with a flat plane crank it’s not serious. Mike swapped the plug wires around and it now runs! He will turn the cams over now to get the correct firing sequence which should make it run a bit smoother.
     

    Attached Files:

    348KYD likes this.
  2. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    Nice one Derek. It's always a relief when the engine fires up after a rebuild. What did you end up doing with the intake manifolds you were designing? At some point I'd like to toss the Bosch CIS and move to throttle bodies and ecu.
     
  3. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    I do recall betting you a carton that you wouldn't get it finished by Christmas... 2018?
     
  4. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    I’m still waiting for you to come and collect Patrick- storage charges are accruing!
     
  5. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    Brock, there hasn’t been as much interest as I expected for the IDF/IDA manifolds- three of us so far and I’d need ten to cover tooling costs. One option for lower volumes would be just casting the tubes and then welding the flanges on. Much cheaper tooling but slightly higher unit cost.
     
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  6. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    17,218
    Gold Coast, Aust.
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    Don't worry, I won't forget! And I might be up for a set of manifolds if I can get my FrankenFerrari project going...
     
  7. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    They turned the two cams over, retorqued all the head stud nuts, checked the valve clearances, hooked up the clutch cable and shifter, and... for the first time in 23 years it’s driving!!
     

    Attached Files:

    Patrick Dixon likes this.
  8. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2012
    1,130
    UK
    Looks good (if not entirely legal). Nice colour too.
     
  9. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    Derek, what is you unit cost guesstimate only casting the tubes and then welding the flanges?
     
  10. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    Brock, I just sent off the drawings so should have a price in the next week or so. Usually a bit of haggling too. I've put sockets into the bottom plate so they can be brazed in to reduce bottom plate warpage. The central coolant hole will be a 1" threaded nipple so you can use an SS barbed nipple and hoses with 45 degree bends. I haven't thought about the throttle linkage setup-- open to suggestions??
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  11. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    Hi Derek, great I'll be interested to see the cost. On the throttle body side what bolt pattern have you designed? This may dictate what throttle body solution and therefore the linkage design.
     
  12. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    It’s the IDF/IDA top flange with a 40mm ID hole. The manifold is short enough to fit IDFs under the deck.
     
  13. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    Right, well for me the nicest (and as always most expensive solution) would be Jenvey Heritage TBs. You get the good looks of quad carbs but actually have the full benefits of electronic injection
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  14. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
  15. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
    3,007
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Ashley
    Wow they look cool
     
  16. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    I finally got to drive my baby and it looks, sounds, and drives beautifully— I was pleasantly surprised! Hard to get into despite me being average height and weight, and my feet felt too big for the tight pedal cluster. The fast road cams from CAT cams were surprisingly docile and fine for city driving. Kevlar clutch feels the same as most clutches, no sudden grip, very smooth.

    I got my new vintage plates but they are slightly too long for the plate area in the back. I just noticed the Mopar body shop gents put the 308 on upside down— maybe a joke or too much moonshine that day :)
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  17. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    57,946
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    I'd leave the '80E'

    :D
     
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  18. BrockBenson

    BrockBenson Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2018
    277
    Australia
    Looking great. Is that colour Grigio? For my taste it could sit a little lower
     
  19. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    Yes Grigio Ferro. Suspension is standard with new bushes but I sent the refurbished a-arms to the garage to fit and suspect they didn’t torque the bolts with the car on its wheels ( as I instructed.)
     
  20. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 13, 2005
    585
    Taipei Taiwan / Somerset UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Lintott
    Looks great Derek! I assume this is this in the UK right? I have the same problem on my Alfa Spider with the historic plate so changed it to a square version that fits well. Also got a much reduced one for the front that looks way better. Sorry no pics of the plate....! Enjoy the drive!



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  21. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Brian - Given all the differing opinions about this and the procedures outlined in the Ferrari shop manual, I would very much appreciate your perspectives and recommendations for re-installing the liners in a '85 308 QV (euro). I had all the liners re-Nikasil plated and have new o-rings (from Superperformance in the full engine gasket set). Given the critical nature of this aspect of the bottom end, your insights will be extremely valuable.

    Similarly, it would be good to know from Derek how his process worked out and whether he'd do anything different next time. Thank you - Joe

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  22. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    Joe I don’t think there’s anything controversial about the o-rings, perhaps you mean iron vs aluminium liners? If you have already had yours plated you must have already decided? It makes sense to have them in the same material so everything expands at the same rate. The Nikasil coating seems to work fine with low-sulphur fuels (BMW and Jaguar had problems due to sulphur in fuel eating into the coating.)
     
  23. 85QVEuro

    85QVEuro Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2021
    545
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Derek - I was not asking about the o-rings or the liners themselves. I am looking for recommendations for re-installing the liners in a '85 308 QV (euro) - You used some orange silicone type product while the shop manual (see below) says to use nothing on the liners ("do not use sealants or lubricants") when they are re-installed in the block so I was trying to see what your experience has been since installing the liners using the method and product you used or if Brian / Rifledriver could weigh in with his recommendations.

    So, any post liner installation thoughts from you would be very helpful. I can't find a lot of posts providing good detail of the liner install or any products that should or should not be used - Thank you for your help

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  24. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,521
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    I just sealed the top hats to stop coolant migration into the head gasket-- nothing on the sides or bottom. You are probably fine following the book but I saw clear signs of coolant getting up into the gasket and can't think of any disadvantage to sealing the tops. I also put a thin coat of high temp RTV on the head gaskets around the water passages, torqued the heads a tiny bit and then fully torqued after 24hrs. Head bolts were re-torqued and shims checked after a few hours of running (two shims were slightly off.) Only limited driving miles so far and no signs of any issues. I just insured it for the road so I can drive it more this summer. I'll give some updates here.
     
  25. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,846
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    I really like Cat's fast road cams too. I have reports that the cams even one step above that are street friendly as long as static compression is around 10.5:1.
     

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