First F40 on BaT

I always thought that UK spec F40s had the speedo in miles not kilometres?

 

Nice to see the market represent not just low-mileage trailer queens.

 

A Classiche F-40 is not drivable.


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nice car. well maintained by some good names. perfect driver.
should reach/exceed $2 mil since there is only a small comm to pay.

 

ah damn, sorry.
i didnt think about that.

 

i think it might.
the one that brought $2.45 had 9k miles.
the one that brought $2.1 recently had more i think .
and both of those had to pay at least 10% - maybe 15%- in commission.

so if you dial it back that means $200-250k off the top.
so lets say this car is 'only' worth $1.8 mil at a regular auction, then that would still end up being $2 mil for the buyer to get it into his driveway.

or i could be completely wrong

 

The very large majority of Ferraris and other cars change hands privately and you and I will never ever hear/learn about it, especially not about the prices paid. Public auctions cover not more than 25 to 30 percent, I guess. Which means that in most cases only very very few people actually get valuable information. Auctions alone are not representative, not at all.

Marcel Massini

 

Why is that? I’d think putting the car up for auction with a world wide marketing campaign would bring way more money? No? I guess no way to really know for sure but if I were to sell a $20 million plus car it would be marketed worldwide then sold at auction



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The 1991 F40 which brought $2,425,000 had 3,779 miles.

The 1989 F40 which brought €2,102,400 had 8,245 miles.

True.

Perfectly stated and correct 100%. The Private Treaty market is more prolific for the simple reason that many people like privacy, I also think the representative numbers are a pure market indicator because Private Treaty deal only closes if Buyer & Seller have taken time to do due diligence and are both happy with the number absent of external pressures or competing interests. Most of our business is Private Treaty and can't be discussed publicly.

Agreed if you have a Mc Laren F1 or a Le Mans race-winning car for example, but F40s are not $20 million cars, we've sold @ 70 of them via Private Treaty, it works, but auction is just fine too, different venues for different folks.

 

this is what i was referring to
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0122-487832/1992-ferrari-f40/
8732 miles

 

No, not at all.
A $ 20 million plus car might be good to create headlines for an auction company but not necessarily beneficial for the consignor/owner.
F40's aren't 20 M $ yet.
A $20 million plus car is best to sell strictly private, all you need is the right contacts and potential buyers. On top of that, the 10% consignor fee and 10% buyer's commission, total of 20%, doesn't need to be calculated in. Everybody wins (except the auction company). Twenty percent of 20 million is a ton of money.

Marcel Massini

 

dont realize or dont care?
looks like 17k km on this one.
the price vs mileage equation is getting blurry.
just from memory, you have mileage ranging from 2k to 26k, and prices so far not necessarily tracking that ratably.
it would be interesting to see some sort of comparison of all cars sold in the last 18 months vs mileage.
assuming all other things being equal (which is admittedly a huge assumption i know, but just trying to figure out if mileage is still as significant).

 

This 1992 F40 did not bring the $2.45m figure you mentioned in your post above, the published result for Mecum's Lot 150 in it's Kissimmee sale was $2.75m, widely regarded to be an outlier based on subsequent auction and Private Treaty results.

This should help https://www.classic.com/m/ferrari/f40/ although as pointed out it does not cover all the Private Treaty sales that have occurred in the same period.

 

thanks for that
this is probably a more relevant time frame for discussion:
https://www.classic.com/m/ferrari/f40?interval=1y

but if we discard the top sale, we must also discard the low sale, they either both count, or neither.
which then skews these numbers from classic.com up again

 

94528,s $2,750,000 isn't the top result, and although it's result was considered an outlier by everyone in the trade became of circumstances I won't post here, it's result should be included in F40's market data for completeness sake, the same is true of all high or low results, we can't make up new inclusion rules as we go along and discard any sales, otherwise the data is incomplete. An outlier result is simply a result believed to be an anomaly because of certain circumstances, but it's worth considering along with all the others, so I'm certainly not advocating it be discarded.

Incidentally the top result of $2,892,500 is actually the sale of the ex-Don Weber 2,345 miles USA F40 93518, FWIW I inspected this car very carefully prior to it's Gooding Pebble Beach auction and we passed on it, all I'll say is that I was stunned it brought anywhere near that number as the car was far from pristine, my client ended up buying another similar-miles USA F40 for almost $400,000 (!) less, which demonstrates that you really have to know this market otherwise you will overpay. With that in mind, recorded sales data is open to interpretation, mileage, condition, records, owners, original paint & interior, modifications, USA or Eu are all factors, and along those lines some results in the accumulated data have merit and are very deserved, others are simply the result of too much money in the system with people paying top dollar for cars that will require significant refurbishment. Therefore, just because a car brings xyz does not mean said car was an astute purchase. Interestingly, overpaying for cars this usually happens with auction cars in an up market as opposed to Private Treaty cars, perhaps the reason some sellers prefer to bring cars to auction.

A much more prudent way for a buyer to review the sales data of any asset (including Ferrari Supercars) is to analyze the results over a 5 year period, with sales in the last 3 years giving you an true indication of if the market has stayed the same, moved steadily, or moved suddenly, this way if you are sensing it's the top of the market you can make an informed decision as regards the timing of your purchase. Naturally, in a market where the cars have moved upwards, sellers or people holding F40s want you to look at just the most recent results which reflect the current status quo. Ultimately all that matters is today's market, but buyers are advised to take into consideration past year's performance as it's an indicator of future results and where we could be if the market slows down. In the 30 years since the cars were being produced, as with any market, F40s have gone up & down in value, the same holds true for the future.

 

Agreed Marcel. I think it is important to emphasize that buyers of $!m+ cars are likely to be accomplished at due diligence or have the contacts to access someone who can do it for them, well.

 

And RHD.

 

No factory F40s were rhd, any such were post production conversions by Pininfarina.

I see nothing on the order form for the car to be euro rather than UK spec.

 

My memory was that MPH speedometers were the preferred request for UK cars but some simply arrived with a KM one fitted because of supply shortages at certain times.