Pricing dear goodness gracious…but, hey, all good.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for capitalism but dear goodness, this pricing now is just fascinating and out of control. I get local dealer inventory in my emails weekly. A few years ago I bought my 458 spider for 198 out the door and now dealers are asking 320 K. Again, for all I care that’s awesome I hope the value of our cars go up to 1 million, but man, this is just crazy pricing. Do y’all think it will get back to the “good all days?“
I mean…320k for a 458…c’mon man. Is someone really actually buying a 458 for 350k after tax????

 

It's a US thing. I can buy a 458 here for US$190k (possibly even cheaper) and there is only 1 here for sale.

 

Inflation


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The coming recession will bring back memories of 1999. It's gonna be a blood bath.

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^^^^This!

 

I think it’s temporary. Porsche 991 Targa asking $259K CPO at the dealer. Nice car, but…

Great time to enjoy what you have, not to buy.


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Be patient, good things can come to those that wait.

 

458s are NOT done depreciating. Not by a longshot

They hadn't even gotten started pre-virus.

 

I think the realization that starting very soon, only hybrids will be available from new from all the exotic players.

There are many who do not want hybrid and will be willing to pay for a pre-owned, inflation or not, recession or not...

I have been seeing more and more persons wake up to this new reality and want nothing to do with hybrids, invasive always-on nannies, frustrating dash controls, etc.

For example, look at the Viper ACR family (there are several variations), not made since 2017, no replacement, never coming back, prices are double, triple and more original msrp. The last generation Viper(5) is seeing there greatest rise, but even the generation 4 ACRs are up 150% from 2 years ago and those cars were last made in 2010!

Of course, at some point in the distant future no one will care for those cars, but that's likely 40+ years from now or more.

 

People are borrowing money against overly inflated assets in order to purchase overly inflated assets. Bad news bears..

 

Maybe. Today maybe a warning….

Markets correcting, interest rates up. Demand may change. Supply not likely to get better, only worse.

Not disagreeing just uncertain picture. What’s interesting as well is the targeting shipping strategy adapting to port congestion with status 90 taking as long as manufacture.

Keep your toys.

 

This +1


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Yep. Wait 6 to 9 months. Gonna be ugly.

 

Inflation is taking the place of interest rate increases to calm all markets, as a result of that then money is still cheap to borrow, things will flat line naturally, it's not like the early 90s where high interest rates on borrowed money killed the market.

Just like land, the cars of the past are not being made anymore, current and future cars are like white goods, no soul, so cars that give people a buzz will always be in great demand going forward.

 

…and “asking” ain't “getting.”

 

Not so at all. Hagerty recently published an interesting article about the Ferrari bubble of the late 80's and how it crashed. We're in a bubble again and it will crash again. Even without bubbles, markets for everything from stocks to watches to beanie babies have always gone up and down like a rollercoaster. This is a very interesting read.

https://insider.hagerty.com/trends/the-oral-history-of-the-ferrari-bubble/

 

Well, I don't know how much price destruction qualifies as a crash. Certainly prices can decline and if one has to sell after having bought at the top of the cycle, I guess any loss is a crash.

Prices will fluctuate, but the older Ferrari you own will over time become more and more valuable. I'm not saying a FF will be selling for a million dollars, but it will be valuable.

 

Dave -

That was a very interesting article and thank you for sharing. Selfishly, I hope history does repeat itself and the economy does take a bit of a nose dive. That's when I can usually purchase items at a more reasonable price or sometimes even at firesale prices.

And if the above happens, hopefully I will be able to get a Roma and Tecnica allocation sooner rather than much later.

 

I have a pretty good list of vehicles that when sh*t hits the fan...

Humans are too stupid to learn from hx, and hence, I am patiently waiting.

 

I just dollar cost average my car purchases over time. I found that not getting caught up in the market dynamics/nuances makes for a much more enjoyable ownership experience. YMMV.

 

+1

As long as you enjoy it, it really doesn't matter what you paid...just like a nice vacation...priceless

 

I agree. I think the transition to hybrids and EVs is putting a book end to the era of internal combustion sports cars. If you want an F40, 512TR or Porsche 930, there’s a limited existing pool. Feels like a different market than an SF90 or Roma.

IMHO, the classic and vintage stuff is where the fun is. We can debate where the line is between modern and classic, but I don’t see Daytonas and Portofinos as part of the same market.



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I cant wait until the bottom drops out, I feel sorry for those who overpaid for their Ferraris by 50 % or more. I could care less what happens to the value of my 328 , being that I will never sell it. I agree, the time for these prices to drop , and drop they will, is coming, sooner than later . Greed always backfires . The Unites States , and its citizens decisions of the past, are coming back to hurt, and hurt they will , this is just the beginning. Same with the real estate market.I heard that the powers that be say inflation is at 7 % , ********, its more like 20 % if not more .Greed is the cancer that eats away and destroys our free market system, its a shame, because it does not have to be that way.

Thank you ,

 

I am having a little trouble here. People refer to past bubbles, but leave out one big caveat. The supply is no longer increasing. If you wanted a gated manual Italian made car in the 90's to early 2000s you could buy a used one, or you could order a brand new one. That hasn't been the case for years. Now we are looking at the end for pure ICE cars with the end of ICE on the horizon.

You also have a younger generation taking a hard look at 80s and 90s cars. We (as I am one of them) are just entering the period of life where they can afford these level toys. The cars my friends and I sat and said we would buy once we were out of college kept increasing out of reach. Mid 2k's aircooled 911s were cheap. Supra's were attainable. Lamboghini Diablo's and Testerossa's were attainable. Mondials, 308GT4s, Jalpas were all cheap crap no one wanted. They climbed while we were in college. They climbed while get our first real jobs. During the pandemic many of us have worked from home. We didn't go on vacations. We didn't have much to do but save our money. Still the cars climbed in value. Speaking for myself, it is at a point where many of these are getting to a point where it is either buy it now or it climbs out of a justifiable reach like so many other cars.

For reference I bought a low mileage 99 Viper RT/10 last year and a high mileage Mondial QV to tinker with. Both in cash. That was from selling out of my old hobby. This year due to getting married and how my spouse and I see our premarital assets I am in a position where I could spend up to 150k again, cash purchase, (more if I sold the mondial, won't sell the viper). This is chump change for some of the people on here, but for a middle class white collar joe when adjusting for inflation is probably as high as I will ever go.

For those claiming bubble or that a recession is going to wipe out values, maybe. For those of us who just now can swing the purchase it becomes a gamble. Gamble that I can buy more car a year from now if the bubble bursts or gamble that the car goes out of reach and I settle for something else. For those of us that can buy it outright, looking at past history, so long as you do not have to sell the vehicle it will recover.

 

I am right with you on the thought process. I am going back and forth on if I should just pull the trigger on a 458 now or wait and see if the price comes down.