Actually, not all are Haas employees, most are still working for Ferrari: https://formularapida.net/haas-expands-on-current-deal-with-ferrari-for-employees-parts/ Quote from that article Also they share the same building. Even in the case that nothing leaks at "casual coffee machine encounters", what is learnt can´t be unlearnt and designers could go back and forth between teams without gardening leave, sharing budget cap and wind tunnel hours. Same for Alpha Tauri/Red Bull, that are designed by the same parent company and then sells the IP to the teams.
The article below says otherwise but in any case it’s all semantics (probably due to Italian labor laws) and the FIA is aware of the arrangement. Also, I suppose the cars have been checked for use of their own IP in the parts formerly known as “listed” on their own cars and cleared for this. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-long-term-vision-causing-haass-short-term-pain/6861599/ “Now, not only are dozens of former Ferrari staff employed by Haas, they work at the new team’s Maranello office, run by its new technical director Simone Resta, who joined Haas in December 2020 – from Ferrari, naturally. Haas still works with Dallara, too. ‘There is about 30 full-time people there [Dallara]’, says Steiner.” The RBR example you use is a good one and I don’t remember Merc, Alpine and McLaren all whining about this at a press conference. Like I noted already, now that they risk getting beat not just by Ferrari but also Haas, suddenly it’s a problem. Like many companies that do work for multiple competitors on the same premises, arrangements are made to keep each client’s info protected. For sure when AM go to test in Merc’s wind tunnel, the guys operating the tunnel must be the same so any conversation will surely be more focused on aero than what can be discussed at a water cooler or coffee machine.
Ross wants more Sprint Weekends - https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/33792560/formula-ones-ross-brawn-keen-double-sprint-races-2023-thriller-emilia-romagna-grand-prix Formula One's Ross Brawn keen to double sprint races in 2023 after thriller at Emilia Romagna Grand Prix 1:40 PM ET IMOLA, Italy - Max Verstappen and Charles Leclerc's late battle for victory at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix's sprint race was the icing on the cake for Formula One boss Ross Brawn, who is already planning to roll out the format at twice as many races in 2023.
It looks like Ross Brawn will push his idea by twisting everybody's arm until he get satisfaction. Sprint races will become "fait accompli". In 5 or 10 years time, someone will write that "the teams agreed", as if they had a choice! Just like everything else in F1, opposing any change, a new formula, a new point scoring system, a new race format, an engine "freeze" or the token system is near-impossible unless you withdraw your participation completely.
BBC review of the new rules and effects after the last race - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61228976 Formula 1: Have the new rules worked?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-aston-martin-f1-idea-that-ferrari-and-red-bull-have-copied/10246236/ The Aston Martin F1 idea that Ferrari and Red Bull have copied Formula 1’s frontrunning teams do not have a monopoly on the brightest ideas, and many times in the championship’s history some of the best concepts can be found on cars that aren’t battling for wins. Image Unavailable, Please Login By: Matt Somerfield Co-author: Giorgio Piola Apr 27, 2022, 8:01 AM Image Unavailable, Please Login That has been the case in 2022 too, with an original design idea that emerged on the Aston Martin AMR22 now having been copied by Red Bull after rival Ferrari had also taken note ahead of its launch. Image Unavailable, Please Login Aston Martin AMR22 splitter detail at launch Photo by: Aston Martin Racing At the reveal of the new Aston Martin in February, it featured a keel wing under the nose, which makes use of design freedoms in this area of the car to add a touch more downforce. The idea also featured on the Ferrari F1-75 at its launch and, while some presumed the Italian team had also come up with the idea from scratch, that may not have been the actual case. Image Unavailable, Please Login Ferrari splitter detail at the F1-75 launch Photo by: Ferrari Team principal Mattia Binotto suggested that the Maranello outfit had instead responded very quickly from a close look at what others had been up to. “On the F1-75, there is already a detail from a car that was presented in the past few days,” he said. “And especially in this first phase we will all be watching each other very closely.” While design convergence in F1 is not a new thing, with just seven days between the launch of the Aston Martin and the Ferrari, it was an impressive feat for the Scuderia, given it had to put the solution through the rigours of CFD and the windtunnel before manufacturing a physical version. Image Unavailable, Please Login Ferrari F1-75 side detail Photo by: Giorgio Piola Red Bull obviously took a little longer to examine the merits of such a design but, with a constantly evolving workload, teams need to find ways to insert new ideas into an already cramped schedule, which in the early part of the season can be more about optimisation than it is about total revolution. Internally the keel is home to a plethora of different components, with teams opting to house some of their electronics here, rather than in the sidepods. In Red Bull’s case, this has resulted in the installation of a tall, narrow inlet to help keep these components cool. Red Bull, like many of the other teams on the grid, has a sprung element housed between the chassis and the bib, which obviously limits the shape of the surface. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Nonetheless, this hasn’t stopped the team from narrowing the main body of the keel facade to facilitate the inclusion of the wing elements on either side. This is more likely the reason as to why it took longer for Red Bull to assimilate the design, given it wasn’t as simple as adding the winglets to the side of its pre-existing design. The winglets will alter the local pressure distribution and flow behaviour, with the most obvious takeaway being that they’ll shed a pair of vortices that can either power up or quieten down those shed by the bib below depending on how the team want them to behave. It is something that’s especially important when we consider the proximity to the floor tunnels. Alpine also introduced a keel wing in Imola too, as Fernando Alonso was the recipient of a number of new parts for the grand prix weekend. Image Unavailable, Please Login Alpine A522 Floor comparison
Every time I see pics like this, I am amazed at all the design elements and R&D that goes into these cars. Allows car nerds like me to geek out on this stuff
I watch some bicycle racing.....I think F1 at Monaco should adopt a 'time trial' format; i.e., 2 or 3 cars on track with start times staggered for 3-5 laps. Do it again on Sunday. Lowest cumulative time wins. Drama, excitement, oversized cars not an issue. Sent from my SM-A102U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Good idea, but you would have to persuade the FIA! Some great motor races used to be run on the time trial model: the Targa Florio, the Mille Miglia, the Panamerica Carrera, etc ... Still today, the famous (and dangerous) motorcycle race, the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy is still run on public road as a time trial.
F1 will not replace the Russian GP, so the 2022 schedule remains at 22 race. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The next issue for the FIA and Teams??? https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/is-f1-heading-for-a-budget-cap-showdown-over-red-bull-and-ferrari-development-war/10306242/ Is F1 heading for a budget cap showdown over Red Bull and Ferrari development war? Formula 1 has long been a hotbed of innuendo and accusation, with teams suggesting that a quick rival has a bendy front wing or an unusual straightline speed advantage. Image Unavailable, Please Login By: Adam Cooper May 18, 2022, 12:12 PM Image Unavailable, Please Login It was perhaps inevitable therefore that with the implementation of the FIA financial regulations the focus would move towards how closely those new rules are being followed. The top teams are all well aware how tight their own budgets are this year, and they know how carefully they have to control funds spent on development. They now have to pace themselves over the season to make the best possible use of their limited resources to introduce upgrades that work, in effect getting the biggest bang for their buck. Ferrari’s strategy has been to make the most of its initial car package, while holding back on introducing significant updates until this weekend’s race in Barcelona. Meanwhile the team has watched the progress made by rivals Red Bull with some interest. In the immediate aftermath of the Miami Grand Prix team principal Mattia Binotto hinted that Ferrari has some questions about how that progress is being made within the current constraints. “It's true that Red Bull improved their car,” he said. “Since the very start of the season they introduced upgrades, and today if I look at the last two races, maybe they got a couple of tenths per lap faster to us. “I hope, because there is as well a budget cap, that at some stage Red Bull will stop development, otherwise I will not understand how they can do that.” In the context of further questioning about the relative form of the two teams he added: “If there is a concern it’s how much they are developing considering the budget cap. That's certainly a concern we have got. But more than a concern, as I said maybe it is a hope, because at some stage they will need to stop…” He wasn’t finished there. In response to a question about Ferrari’s own plans he said: “We do not have the money to spend for upgrades at each single race. I think it is as simple as that. Not because of an inability, but because of the budget cap. “So we need somehow to try to focus development on when we believe it's the right moment, and the right spending.” Image Unavailable, Please Login Mattia Binotto, Ferrari Team Principal, Charles Leclerc, Ferrari, Laurent Mekies, Ferrari Racing Director Photo by: Ferrari The message was clear – Ferrari doesn’t understand how Red Bull has been able to improve its car in recent weeks without digging so deeply into its R&D budget that it won’t be able to keep up the pace as the season progresses. And the suggestion therefore was that the FIA should keep a close eye on what Red Bull is doing. It was another signal that the financial regs will become a battleground between Ferrari and Red Bull as the title race hots up over the course of the 2022 season. Just as in the past they always considered the legality of any new parts or upgrades introduced by a rival, now teams will assess how much it will have cost. “I think pretty much every team is pretty close to the limit this year,” Red Bull boss Christian Horner noted even before the first race. “It’s very aggressive, so you have to be very strategic in how you apply your funds to developments, and I think rather than just running as fast as you can and getting as much performance from the car you’ve got to be much more selective in what you chose, based on its cost.” It’s now up to the FIA, under head of financial regulations Federico Lodi, to ensure that everyone plays by the rules and that any grey areas are addressed. A huge effort went into creating those regulations. Lodi was for three years the financial director of Toro Rosso, so he knows F1 from the inside. In creating the rules he had support from F1’s then financial boss Nigel Kerr, previously with Honda/Brawn/Mercedes, while the teams also had input on how it would all work. It wasn’t just about the number crunchers. The technical bosses of the FIA and F1, Nikolas Tombazis and Pat Symonds, also had a lot of input on how to calculate what teams spend on developing and running the cars. "It's clear that for the development of the regulation, we have worked very, very closely with F1,” Lodi told Autosport before the rules came into force. “I’ve known Nigel 10 years, when I was in Toro Rosso, and he was in Mercedes, and we get along well. We have developed the financial regulation jointly. “And it's clear that there are several connections and overlaps with the technical regs. So obviously Nik and Pat are also part of the discussions, especially when we have to deal with technical matters, so treatment of components, power units, and so on. “While on the other hand, when we talk about exclusion of costs, like marketing, HR, legal, it’s just me and Nigel. “On top of that, we have been assisted for the whole process by Deloitte UK. They have been with us since the beginning. And they have fair experience in sporting regulation. They were the one that designed the financial fair play for UEFA.” Image Unavailable, Please Login Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing RB18, Charles Leclerc, Ferrari F1-75 Photo by: Andy Hone / Motorsport Images The regulations were refined over several years. After the teams agreed in the middle of the 2020 COVID-19 lockdown to further trim the headline numbers there was a push for even more detail. Thus the rules now take into account subjects such as maternity leave, sick pay and how to allocate the wages of mechanics who work mainly on heritage and demo cars, but might be called into help with the current programme. Every dollar now counts as teams try to keep under the cap. The consequences of breaching the cap will be severe, which is why there’s an ongoing debate about an upward adjustment for inflation that will create a bit of breathing space for the teams who are really close to the limit. And yet despite all the effort that has gone into creating and honing the financial regulations there are still some doubts about how they are interpreted, and how strictly they can be enforced. “I fully trust FIA,” Binotto said at Imola when Autosport asked him if there were grey areas. “But no doubt that it’s a brand new regulation, and as all the regulations, there is always a competitive advantage if you can try to read them in the proper ways. “It doesn't mean that there are grey areas, but it's the way that teams may understand or read or interpret the regulations themselves. So I think there is the need of a big effort from FIA to try to police. I think that in order in order to do that they need to reinforce the internal staff, and the number of people that somehow are auditing and policing, because it's a key element. “I think it is as important as the technical and as the sporting regulations because as a matter of fact it is a proper regulation, or maybe today the CFOs are as important as technical directors.” It was intriguing that Binotto highlighted that the FIA needed more staff – given that the governing body is facing a financial squeeze of its own a big recruitment drive for extra auditors seems unlikely. However the FIA does now have Kerr officially on board helping Lodi - in February he left the employment of F1 to become a consultant to the governing body. Binotto also hinted at one of the major challenges that the FIA faces in balancing things out. Every team has a slightly different business model, as some build their own engines and gearboxes and suspension parts, while others buy in some or all of those elements, to differing degrees. Image Unavailable, Please Login Mick Schumacher, Haas VF-22, makes a pitstop Photo by: Glenn Dunbar / Motorsport Images Perhaps the most complicated arrangement is that in Milton Keynes, where Red Bull Racing and Red Bull Technology operate in parallel, with the latter also supplying AlphaTauri. Binotto noted: “I think at the end, it's important that FIA put really the maximum effort into trying to understand the different assets of the different companies and teams, how they spend the money, how they justify the way they're spending it. “And I think in that respect, it's a huge and difficult task. But we are trusting them. I'm pretty sure that they will organise themselves to do it. But I think that further effort is required.” As the rules were formulated the FIA had to dig deep into each team’s business model, taking into account for example that Haas buys more parts from Ferrari than any other team sources externally, or that Red Bull Racing and Red Bull Technology work together. "I think that we have addressed this in the financial regulation because in principle, Red Bull Technology will fall in the declaration of Red Bull racing,” Lodi explained. “So the F1 costs we say are incurred by a team, but the reality is incurred by a reporting group that is the F1 team’s legal group entities that incur F1 activity cost on behalf of the team. So Red Bull Technology will fall in the declaration of Red Bull Racing." The consensus among other team bosses is that the system is essentially robust and works well – but there’s always scope for further tightening up and clarification as those inevitable grey areas emerge. “The amount of work each team does with the FIA on the cost cap, on the policing of that, is immense,” says Jost Capito of Williams. “And I think there are a lot of discussions with the finance guys of the teams with the FIA, how to still improve that. “If a team identifies a grey area, I think discussion comes up in that group. And it's just now we filed after the first year and, of course, it's such a complex system, it has to be further developed. “And I think there is a good cooperation within all the finance directors of the teams to develop it further. But it's a lot of work with the FIA too, they police it pretty well.” “It is like with sporting and technical regs,” says Aston Martin’s Mike Krack. “You read them carefully, and you'll see areas where you can explore more, if you call them grey or not. “So if you go over the limit or not, you will be told like you do with technical and sporting as well.” “I think there are always grey areas,” says Haas boss Guenther Steiner. “But I think the FIA is putting a lot of effort and good work into it to be on top as much as possible. “Nobody's trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. It's like one of those things; if you find grey area to exploit it, but I think there are not a lot of loopholes to do anything which wouldn’t end up in being big penalties.” Image Unavailable, Please Login Guenther Steiner, Team Principal, Haas F1, Jost Capito, CEO, Williams Racing, Mike Krack, Team Principal, Aston Martin F1, in the Press Conference Photo by: Carl Bingham / Motorsport Images The prospect of the 2022 F1 world championship ending up in a legal fight over how much a team spent on making its car faster is not an appealing one. After all the championship has always been about pushing the limits of technology. However, we also have to remember the big picture. F1 is in a healthy state right now because the financial regs were introduced both to close up the field and to keep 10 healthy teams on the grid. Stakeholders like Renault and Gene Haas could see that it was no longer a bottomless pit of spending, and thus were encouraged to remain involved. No one said that making the new rules work would be easy. “It has been a challenge, it has been difficult,” said Lodi. “Because obviously it's a change of mindset also, because F1 has always been used to just technical and sporting regulations. “There have been instances before where financial regulations have been tried to be implemented, but it was impossible. “But this time, I think that everybody was very, very determined and committed in order to introduce the financial regulations, because we wanted to have a sustainable business model for the teams for the future.”
Thanks for posting. This buget cap will reveal to be a can of worms, I expect. The FIA made a rod for its own back, IMO.
With 22 races on the calender instead of 23, it's POSSIBLE the budget might drop from $142.4 million to $141.2 million.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-extra-f1-sprint-race-plan-hold-up-not-about-money/10306672/ FIA: Extra F1 sprint race plan hold up not about money FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem has insisted that a recent move that held up plans for extra Formula 1 sprint races in 2023 was not about money. Image Unavailable, Please Login By:Jonathan Noble May 19, 2022, 11:55 AM Image Unavailable, Please Login At a meeting of the F1 Commission last month, grand prix racing’s owners Liberty Media and teams were in agreement about a push to expand the number of sprint races to six next year. However, the plans did not move forward after Ben Sulayem said he wanted more time to consider the impact that the extra events would have on the FIA’s running of grand prix weekends. His stance, amid suggestions that the FIA faced increased costs because of the changes, prompted insiders at the meeting to suggest that the issue was simply one of ‘greed’. It comes at a time when the new president is trying to better balance the books at the FIA as he aims to address huge losses at the governing body. But speaking about the matter for the first time, Ben Sulayem has denied that he is holding out for more cash for the FIA. “I did not ask for more money but if I had I would have wanted to use it in the right way – to invest in the proper regulation of the sport,” he told the Daily Mail. “We say Formula 1 is the pinnacle, and it is, so we at the FIA need the resources to govern the technical and financial side of a billion-dollar sport in a manner that respects that. We need the capability to observe those standards. Image Unavailable, Please Login FIA president Mohammed ben Sulayem Photo by: Andy Hone / Motorsport Images “So, specifically with regard to the sprints, I have to see whether my team on the ground can absorb the extra workload the races would entail. “After Abu Dhabi (when Lewis Hamilton controversially lost the title to Max Verstappen) people said we should change this or that. “So I don't understand why we would suddenly ask the FIA team to do more. An incident happens in the future, such as one involving a safety car, and then what? “We need to look into all this and make a sensible decision. Let us run our operation. We are going to fix it.” Ben Sulayem suggested that he was more than happy to give his approval to the sprint expansion, if the FIA decides that there are no downsides to the change. “I support the races if it is the right thing to do,” he added. “I'm not saying it is the wrong thing. I am saying there is time to decide. This is for 2023, not this season. Our house isn't on fire. “We have what is called a democracy: Formula 1 have a vote, the teams have a vote, I have a vote. If you then say I can't abstain or take time to study the proposals then you are not allowing me the freedom of democracy.”
Budget reality?? This could be fun soon! https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/61551759 Formula 1 teams will miss races unless budget cap raised - Red Bull's Christian Horner Image Unavailable, Please Login By Andrew BensonChief F1 writer Last updated on 30 minutes ago30 minutes ago.From the section Formula 1 Image Unavailable, Please Login Christian Horner has called on the FIA to address the issue Formula 1 teams will be forced to miss races this season unless the sport's budget cap is increased, says Red Bull team principal Christian Horner. The current budget limit is $140m (£111m). "Seven of the teams would probably need to miss the last four races to come within the cap this year," he said. "It's not just about the big teams. It's teams in the middle of the field who are really struggling with inflationary issues." Horner, whose Red Bull team lead the drivers' championship, through Max Verstappen, as well as the constructors' championship, said F1's governing body the FIA "needs to address" the problem. He added: "The FIA has a duty of care. I know they are taking it seriously. "Energy bills, costs of living, costs are going exponentially, and F1 is not exempt. Freight has quadrupled and that's not something we can control." Horner's position is backed by title rivals Ferrari, world champions Mercedes and McLaren. But the Alfa Romeo, Alpine, Haas and Williams teams all voted against a proposal for an inflationary adjustment based on International Monetary Fund inflation figures when it was proposed last month at an F1 Commission meeting of teams, the FIA and commercial rights holder F1. Alpine team principal Otmar Szafnauer said: "We've set our budgets early, we kind of anticipated a little bit of the inflation. Inflation didn't just creep up on us. If we can do it, for sure others can do it too. I'm not for just increasing the cap. "When freight costs go up by 2.5m or 3.5m but your development budget is 20m, can you not make your development budget 17m and still be under the cap? You can. "What that then does is it limits your development. So it's a lot easier, if you have the money, to go to the FIA and lobby to raise the cap and keep your development budget the same." An Aston Martin spokesperson said: "We support a budget cap increase in line with inflation but do not see the need for an increase greater than that." A spokesman said that the FIA was looking into the issue on an ongoing basis. Some teams are concerned that the top teams are arguing the case for a budget-cap increase as a way of maintaining their high levels of spending. Some of the smaller teams have budgets lower than the cap, and they say that increasing it would only increase the inequity across the field - which is counter to the aim of the rule changes introduced by the FIA and F1. In addition, some sources say the bigger teams are trying to compound the effect of inflation into next year, which could end up increasing the cap by as much as $15m. The cap was introduced last year as one of a number of ways to attempt to level the field and reduce the gaps between teams. It started at $145m (£115m) in 2021, and is set to reduce by a further $5m (£3.97m) in 2023. However, the bigger teams contrast their flexible approach during the Covid crisis in 2020 with what they see as the intransigence of the smaller teams now. Before the pandemic, the budget cap had been set to come in at $175m (£139m) in 2021. But the big teams agreed to a $30m (£23m) reduction in the early months of the pandemic because of the threat Covid was perceived to pose to the survival of the sport. The leading teams point out that the cost of air freight has increased by 50% this year, and utilities required to run their factories are as much as three times more than they were. They say the situation is serious enough that they will have to choose between not attending races or sacking hundreds of people across the industry if the cap is not increased. They also argue that if the majority of the grid ends up breaching the cap this year, then the validity of the cap itself is at risk. Sanctions for breaking the cap are not precisely defined, but if the breach is serious a team could even be disqualified from the championship. One possible compromise is for teams to overspend by 5%, an amount which a mechanism in the rules dictates will be treated as a minor offence.
Under the pretext of inflation, this seems to be an attempt to increase the budget cap by the 4 most wealthy teams. It wasn't unexpected that the big teams would find the budget limit too constraining. Let's see how the FIA will react to that veiled blackmail from Horner.
My simple thoughts would be the FIA agree'd resource numbers used a much lower figure for inflation and did not include anything like the 'spike' the series is seeing in a number of cost factors. I feel no sympathy for either side. I do think the budget is having an effect of too much artificial constraint on the series. F1 is not the pinnacle if its fully constrained by an arbitrary set number on budget. We have a numbers race now. Money number not innovation. Nothing is cheaper and that includes racing. I think a rational number is about 250million. For development, repairs and inflation. If you cannot find 250 - leave. HAAS and Williams are at the bottom not sure what they would do if more spending was allowed. They have progressed little to begin with. 250 would allow for continuous development? F1 is the pinnacle of racing if it allows development in a more open/less restrained manner. So by race 10 this year, is the season over simply because a majority of teams are unable to develop = COMPETE?
I think Haas are not doing so bad operating on a $100M budget as it is ! Steiner isn't concerned with the present budget cap; he has no chance of reaching it !
True - value wise HAAS has a small diamond mine in the teams current value. They are competing. Making a bit of a wave this year and its exciting. I do think they will descend down the grid as the season moves on.
