OFFICIAL B-17 Thread

Amazing to think these planes are close to 100 years old now..

 

77 years old in the case of "Texas Raiders". She was one of the last B-17s built by Douglas, and was too late for the war.

 

Model 299 rolled out in 1935 and almost wasn't accepted by the Army Air Corps that was looking at the Douglas B-18. The accidental crash of the prototype almost killed the program.That crash, caused when the gust locks were not removed before takeoff, initiated the development of the check list. The over-designed airframe of that airplane added thousands of pounds to the empty weight but that is why they could take so much punishment. Still such a beautiful airplane and solid to fly in.

 

I wish that I had the time and energy to write a small book about how the previous designs influenced the structural concept of the 247 and 299. The aerodynamics were leaps ahead of the Model 80 but the good old Warren truss hung on in the structural area of the wing (a monstrous basket weaving project) until the B-29 came along. The B-24 jumped ahead with shear web structural design in 1939 but Boeing was locked in to the production of the B-17 .They made the total change with the B-29 in 1942 .

 

Looking at B-17 thread, jogged my memory about a B-17 pilot. About 30 years ago, I was sitting in Surgeons lounge talking to a Urologist about a patient. Conversation drifted to he was a former B-17 pilot. Forgotten the exact details but he joined at age 17-18, flight training etc. He was B-17 co-pilot when pilot was wounded by Flak. At that time, I guess, 8th Air Force was "next man up". If i remember correctly next bombing run he was the Crew Commander and Pilot, age 21. Later her flew in lead formation in first US daylight raid on Berlin. I think of him sometime when I see "Woke" 20 somethings on Youtube trying to speak in complete sentences.

FWIW, recently read that the number of 8th Air Force casualties was greater than the entire Marine Corps. casualties in the Pacific War Theater.

 

Almost 48,000 casualties, over 26,000 fatalities. I crewed with war wearies that had been sent state side because they were physically and mentally used up. BUT, some of them were still flying B-17's and B-24's to train new crews. I flew once with a 24 year old captain who had umpteen missions in his log. Also had a few shakes.

 

I guess it was a version of PTSD, even though that term didn't exist yet.

 

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WW I, “Shell Shock”, WW Ii “Psychiatric Collapse”, “Combat Fatigue”

 

Too many times some of the "old guys" took in too much alcohol and it released things that were kept somewhat under the surface during the day. The first time that I experienced someone making "a return to combat" was a frightening eruption in the middle of the night . Soon, though, we learned to recognize who the likely suspects were and we made adjustments for them. You can't believe the physical strength that even a 145 pound guy has when they have an episode.

 

I hope that the old man isn't tagged for telling too many war stories. Okay, I'll hang it up after one last thought. i became friends with a tail gunner who rode down 13,000 ft.trapped in the severed tail of his B-17 and survived it. They had to cut him out of the wreckage and he had a scar from his crotch to his ribs. Unlike the others that I mentioned, he had a resilience that enabled him to keep things in their place. He was calm and easy going and never mentioned his incident except when he was questioned. Hardly anyone knew about him until the Langley Field newspaper published a story about him. Joe Frank Jones was on his 22nd mission when his airplane (named "Mr. Lucky") was cut in half by another. So, he was a bit different by his quiet demeanor than some of the others in the squadron.

 

crazy, hard to believe. He was "Mr. Lucky"
https://www.americanairmuseum.com/person/116195

"Jones had "floated" down in the severed tail section of "Mr Lucky" and was the sole survivor of the nine-man crew."
"He remembered later taking out a cigarette, lighting it ...." on the way down!

".... sixteen men who had lost their lives in the incident." His plane collided with another!

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Obit: 13 Jan 1994 (aged 68)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/101921445/joe-frank-jones

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Joe said that the tail section tried to fly at times and would sort of soar but then it would start tumbling, so he didn't know how he would end up when it hit the ground. His attempts to bail out were blocked by jammed hatches and damaged structure so he strapped himself in and, as he said, lit up a cigarette , and passed out before he landed. I know that I posted it before but if some of you didn't see it, here is my painting of his airplane with crew names. Hope that you can enlarge it. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

i did a "Mr. Lucky" without the crew names that is clearer, I think. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The nickname may not have worked for that airplane, but it sure worked for Joe!

 

https://www.flyingmag.com/collings-foundation-grounds-wwii-aircraft/

As we all suspected after the 909 crash, the Collings Foundation is ceasing their bomber tours and focusing on a static collection.

 

could you copy/repost in this dedicated thread? Thanks
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/b17-crashes-in-connecticut.608128/page-7

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Just saw this photo posted. I knew they captured a few in 1942 and 1943, but not an early one.

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https://www.historynet.com/japans-fleet-flying-forts/

 

Considering the maintenance issues that caused the crash maybe they are better suited to static display upkeep.