Thanks for the recommendation I have spoken to Dave, and a possible trade scenario was floated but he really loves his car so he wasn't interested. I'm currently out of the car buying market as anything remotely interesting would require $100k+ in financing which doesn't fit in our family plans (although our oldest daughter is graduating this week from Texas A&M, and as I write is on a virtual interview). One down, one to go.... I'll keep admiring the Boxer and their owners from a distance (as required by the restraining order....stupid courts).
i concur. you dont even need the full newman treatment tho. when i got mine in 2009, i did a full engine rebuild, along with a thorough review and rehab of all other components in preparation of the targa. that cost me about 20k at the time (actual cost more like 40k, but i had done a deal and my cost was capped). and the cleaned out fully restored engine breathing free, probably put out 350bhp and was solid. now 13 years later, i am doing a thorough revamp again, which will cost around $12k. this time will change filters etc and still end up back at 350 bhp area. i also have 3 sets of wheels for this one: originals with original tires for shows; "17 image wheels with sticky tires; Daytona wheels with balloon tires (on now because Houston roads are 3rd world quality). so if you add up all the maintenance over many years, it amortizes down to about 2-3k/year - it just comes in lumps. and the performance is equal to a 360, but the style quotient is much higher
There are two 365 boxers listed in the UK Ferrari Owners Day auction early in June. I’m interested to see what happens. One has been on the market for a few years.
Ross - I agree with you. How can a TR go for $570K, even though low mileage, and Boxers struggle to get in the $300's? Unbelievable. I use to dismiss the talk that Boxers were never officially imported to the USA and people do not know what they are and did not grow up with their posters as a reason for the lower value but now I'm starting to give it some credence. Maybe this result will help Boxer prices. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-ferrari-512-tr-14/
The 512 BB is THE last analog Ferrari. The BBi gets honorable mention. One of my greatest regrets, and I have many, is not buying a Boxer when I could have, esepcially when I replaced my Daytona with a 550 Maranello. I should have grabbed a Boxer at that time. I loved the look of the Maranello and thought it was a modern Daytona from the day it came out. However, it forever made it clear to me that modern sports cars are not for me. And I had a very nice one 3,000 miles with Tubi exhaust and the 19" factory optioned wheels for the 575.
interesting. Never drove a 550, but had a fair amount oif seat time in a 456 and 599. They were pretty much just cars, like a ferrari version of a m series bmw..
Everyone argues that their car is the ;last this or that. A few years from now the new 296 hybrid Ferrari will be the last ice one etc. The 458, certainly was the most beautiful ferrari to come along since the 308/512/288 well Ill give special mention tot he 456 which was a classical beauty at elast in looks,, maybe the 296 brings back some classical beauty, haven't seen it in the flesh but from pcs looks great although some angles look like they may be a bit awkward, hard to tell from pics. As for driving. Each change took away something if you're talking analog experience. By the time of the 458 the only thing left was the NA motor, and event hat was injected and needed lots and lots of revs to really move otherwise it was a pretty anodyne experience. No stick and feeless eps makes it definitively not an analog car, even if it has classical beauty and a NA engine/sound. While the 488 was a butchering of the shape its imo a better resolved car for the road, great low don tq which useable on the road and more resolved steering, 80% of the way to an electric ferrari. I thought part of what made these modern cars good is that they embrace their digitalness, so the steering while lacking feel is both light, hyper sharp and accurate. While yes feel is lost, and by extension the car talkign to you, its not possible to have those 3 elements in an anolog system on basically a heavyish road car. Lack of feel is compensated for by the hyper steering and then elecytronics to save you from the edge, as opposed to the steering starting to go light as the analog car tells you hey were near the limit. Analog Ferrari, on spec its the 348, no ps even. I havent driven the 355 but maybe it fit even though its ps. A 360 stick, yeah sorta, but its a transitional car. already cause were getting into Ps, and nannies. and most are paddles which tells a lot about Ferrari intent.. if a 458 is analog, then lets gte those lambo Hurricane while they last, cause its the last of the last. I was reminded just eysterday hpow proifoundlya stick alters the road experince. My e46 m3 came out of storage. i hadent drivemn it sine october. The alfa gulia bvetween turbo and paddles is power right now on tak to do your bidding, that allows one to sue it very effectively, to the extent such drivign is even possible on road. In the M3 I had to think ahead more, size up the road s;ect the gear keep the mtor on boil, its just and entirely different level of engagement. If as a kid you played with tonka toys and imagined operating the real machine, a stick car is like that, youre operating a machine which requires a certain amount from you to perform at all. a digital car just does you bidding. On a digital car on track, its clearly quicker and far more effective. because the shifting is removed from the equation your steering and braking are simple better and your concentration better focused on the task at hand, because the car is doing all the rest. plus you know that there is this indivisible hand(nannies) to catch egregious mistakes. But for road, where the speeds attainable are so well below what a digital or any decent car can do, a stick/anolog car for driving recreation is orders of magnitude more engaging. Even still the big rub these days is finding road conditions where you can just flow. A digital car takes all the pain and work out of regular road conditions, and you ca still opportunisticly feed. Analog cars on the right day and road are infinitely superior as an experience, to the extent one has access to thoe condtions and anolog car is a must in the stable. For the other 90% of the time and for track, not so much. (Well light anolog cars work on track). Its horses for courses. If your really like to drive and have access to the right road conditions, and can have more than one, then an anolog car shoudl be in the stable. if you only have 1 fun car, and live in most of the USA then a digital car is simply more uselable more of the time, and has a greater breadth of operating conditions. In FL there the roads are straight, its highway, or stoplights and turn is the occasional 300 degrees of onramp with no traffic, an analog car would just be a PITA, sorta cool but out of its element. The digital car there, its simply better for any condition/use yore likely to encounter. Back roads of ct this am, analog for sure. What impresses ost about my Gulia is it does both so well. Which tell me that digital as a MC 20 may be, its possible that its suspension compliance/controll and a steering accuracy is such that it can be rewarding on twisties and still just be a powerful comfy tool like other digital cars. All of which is to say that while digital cars loose somehting, by now 20 years later they can add other parts and to a certain degree do both. Mostly though as digital cars came along 20 years ago things were lost. But ill bet the 296 is great in a way that was lost when the 360-5458 came along. Ill bet the steering is really resolved now, and with the electric assist there is no lag, and contrived as the exhaust may be, it sounds great too. Yeah, ya gotta have both if you can.
True, but since I own nothing these days, and am not in the market my opinion should be taken as objective and correct. Anything with power steering or paddles, is not even in the running. Anything with computerized suspension control is not in running. We can argue about fuel injection and the different types of fuel injection. I never liked the 348 from day one. I thought it looked like the Jap cars that had been trying to emulate Ferrari for years. I was so happy when I was ready to buy my first Ferrari someone had stashed away an ‘89 328 for me with less than 900 miles. I bought it and drove it as if I bought it new instead of buying a new 348 at time. the one thing I wish they tried on the 328 before retiring it was rotating the engine to longitudinal, like the 288 and 348z. I would have liked to see that in the 328 body. Which to me is the best looking Ferrari V-8 of all time.
I agrer about the weird looks of the 348, although with time its growing on me. That car came out not fully resolved. By the end they had the handling right, but the first few years were horrid, and compared to a 308 series it was a very different look. Maybe now with so many soap shaped cars the 348 looks better. In the 328, yes it looks great, but I think a euro 308Qv looks better, the 328 was already a change in the shape heavier looking in front and it lost those groovy switches. yes it would have been great to see them do that car with the north south motor. Must have been possible as the mondial made the switch, and it previously always had the same powerplant as the 308/328 etc. The 288 was a little longer though to accommodate. But yeah a 308 with a 348 motor and transaxle or eve a 360 motor(same block so should work). Thats the type of resto mod we need to see. there was a 308 Gt4 for sale a few years back with 348 power, so it can be done. At the time I bought my BBI I was looking for a 308 Qv or 328. I tired the 328 which had maybe 2k miles on it. I thought the car drove great, the brakes were great and it had a lightness of feel the boxer did not. It dissapointed in that it felt like it just did not go, even subjectively there was no coming on cam feell and it was kinda slowish. At the time I was coming out of a moded 91 vette with about 500hp and trying the ferraris on a straight road. . The 328 was 75k after I tired it I was not sold and the salesman said try the boxer, i thoght it would be too expensive but it was 84K. (I dint realize it needed an eo and exhaust so that ended up being another 14K) The boxer simply had go, punch, and I always loved the looks. The 328 would have been a much easier car to keep, but Im not sure it would have been compelling to keep as the boxer is. The thing about a boxer is its still quick enough to work these days and modern rubber can make them light in feel like a 328. While a Tr is notionaly fatser than a boxer, that 2 valve motor makes power and tq now, the throttle is like a rheostadt. That being said my 195 hp elsie will slaughter any of these older ferris in every way except maybe top speed. the elsie also sounds like crap and is 4cyl vibratey. Maybe Im getting old, but sometimes I think a modern that just works might be more fun more often, like a z06 vette, but then I realize it would also be sorta boring.. If I were going to spend the 300k worth of scratch on a modern, it would be a lambo hurricaine. i think they have that car really worked out and personally love the looks, its a truly modern and cohesive shape they made the wedge work and Im a kid of the 70s. . Instead I'm going to sped the $ on a really fast smallish boat i can also ski off and a really nice bay boat. Its all about opportunity for use. Plus as much fun as I have driving, the reality of fools on the road and the law means that use is limited . What i really love is track cars, no holding back. The fast road cars seem like a waste these days and frankly my gulia is so good, who needs more for the road. Thats part of why i keep the boxer, as an older nalog car, to get any reasonable speed you really have to know how to work it, so for road it scratches some itches when its the rigth day. Plus its already art just standing still. But a fast modern, pointless to me unless it can track, and no road car really tracks out he box except maybe a Gt3. Yeah if I had the $ the MUrry T33 would be a must have, but otherwise, whats really compelling out there. Who makes a light lithe car, well built with a smooth sonorous motor, nobody. Add to that steering that is spot on without assist, nobodyx2. the boxer, classic looks unfettered by regulation, a great motor, plenty enough speed, still very anolog with actualy good suspension if it has the rubber to work it. the telling part for me was when they tested Nicak masons BBlm and F40 same day at goodwood. The BBLm was significantly quicker aorunf the circut. A BBlm is basically a lightened boxer with 400hp running slicks. So Imagine a 400hp BBi with modern rubber, cause that's entirely possible today in a completely stock lookign car.
As we dumb down society thats true. As we add nannies and "driver assistance" concentration and skills drop further. As we add airbags ec the consequences of stupidity drop leading to more stupidity. Governments solution is the autonomous car, which is by way of analogy their solution to everything, turning us into well fed house pets. its one of the appeal of going the track, its the totally opposite environment, plus youre never holding back. the days of beig able to crush continents fatter tan a Cessna are over. Im lucky I got that type of driving in while living in South Africa. Sunday mornings flat out on winding highways or canyon roads on motorcycle, or later my corvette or later still a countach. Crushing distances at 250kmh between two cities in a XJS or later a volvo 850 turbo. Running from Johannesburg to Botswana flat out through the hills in a subrau wrx. that type of road driving does not exist anymore. its why a BBI is still such a good bet, cause its classic Ferrari but still great on a winding or mountain road, which is where one can still drive.
I often hear comments related to how good the Boxer is on winding or mountain roads. Maybe it comes down to the severity of the mountain road, however, I have access to mountain roads approximately an hour away and it is anything but enjoyable. Sharp 90 degree turns, short straights and then another 90 degree turn up and down the mountain. Many skid marks heading straight into the trees ahead. The steering is so light in those turns that I feel like the car is about to break traction at any second. Throw some moisture into the mix and you can forget about it. Maybe it’s the original TRX rubber that I am running. Not an enjoyable experience.
That tyre was designed fr a 6 series BMW, it had no buisness being on a boxer, maybe it was ok for a 400I. The story was that michelin supplied the race tires so Enzo put Michelins on his cars. To make the elastic sidewall TRX sort of work ferrari specified 40+psi, even then sidewall flex is bad. Had ferrari developed the car it would have gone to p7s as with porche turbos and countaches.. These days modern rubber confers grip, predictability and ride which is trans formative for the car and allows it to be what its underpinnings promise.. You can do 275 rears easily which secures the tail, and go narrower than stock 240 front for steering feel and lightness.. To contextualize a Maclaren F1 has 235 fronts and 225s are perfect to the BBi. you can run hard with the trz's if theyre relatively fresh provided everything is power on, but you can quickly get to a point of no return. If you realy know the road and practice then the car can be driven to its limit on thise tires, provided you dont even feather the throttle to neutral. But with modern ribber, youre not working around flexy sidewall with vague steering and snap oversteer. You do need new rims though.
Yes, I have had my eyes on a set for some time. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
