F1 2022 - News/Regulation change/Developments | Page 21 | FerrariChat

F1 2022 - News/Regulation change/Developments

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Sep 19, 2020.

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  1. Spet00

    Spet00 Formula Junior

    Jul 21, 2020
    296
    F1 is doing the right thing with putting pressure on Monaco to adhere to the same guidelines as the other races. I love the Monaco GP and the whole spectacle that revolves around it, but they keep proving that their local TV-production team don't have the level of expertise to provide the TV-viewers with good coverage of the race. At the same time, F1 shouldn't accept Tag Heuer getting prime advertisement space due to being sponsors of the Monaco GP, when Rolex are paying F1 $$$$ to be in focus. Can't do much about the track layout, but I doubt F1 will let Monaco keep their 'special exemptions'.
     
    DF1 likes this.
  2. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,274
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Absolutely spot on.
    Remove Monaco, Spa Silverstone Monza And this is not Formula One anymore
    have to say i would love to see Brands Hatch
     
    635CSI and Bas like this.
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    27,708

    Brands Hatch isn't up to F1 standards anymore.

    To make it conform would cost millions and completely change the circuit, like it was done at Hockenheim.

    It's my home track, and I prefer it to stay like it is.
     
  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    I perfectly know that.
    It’s a shame « que les pilotes ne savent plus mourir aujourd’hui ! »;)
     
  5. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Wolff: F1 budget cap allowance would help adjust staff salaries
    Mercedes teams principal Toto Wolff says a compromise to adjust Formula 1's budget cap to account for increased energy and freight costs would allow the team to adjust staff salaries for inflation.
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,734
    I thought the Monaco coverage was a bit BETTER than the average Sky coverage.

    Tell Rolex to go pound sand.
     
  7. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    I support Binotto on this. The larger teams accommodated smaller team's earlier in this process. Costs cannot be denied at all now.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-can-f1-break-the-deadlock-over-cost-cap/10317014/


    How can F1 break the deadlock over competing cost cap desires?

    We’re already in June with seven races of the 2022 Formula 1 season completed and there's still no sign of any agreement on an upward adjustment to the cost cap.

    --Ferrari boss Mattia Binotto is clearly frustrated, suggesting that those teams now blocking change are not playing fair after big players made concessions when it was seen to be necessary.

    “I would like, again, to reinforce whatever is the situation, small teams, top teams that it's a sense of responsibility that we've got all towards the regulations and F1,” he says. “As I think we had at the time, 2020, when we were reduced [from] 175 to 145 [for 2021]. It was certainly not in the interest of the top teams to reduce to 145. It would have been so simple for us simply to stop it and keep 175, and today, there will there be no discussions at all.

    “I think we made an effort, because we understood the importance of it. We understood the importance try to balance a bit more the cap and the financial situations within teams. But I think as we did at the time, now we are experiencing the regulations, we know where the limits are, what needs to be improved.

    “And I think as an entire community, all the teams should understand that, and be responsible. If a team is simply looking at its own individual interest, we will never move on. The thing that as Ferrari we accepted, even in 2020, to freeze regulation when we knew that our car was very bad [and] put all the criticism on our shoulder for an entire season.

    “But we did that for the simple sense of responsibility. If someone is not doing it today when there is such a situation, which is force majeure, which is obvious, which everyone can understand, I would simply not understand it.”--

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    Binotto has not shied away from voicing his displeasure with the current stand-off

    Photo by: Carl Bingham / Motorsport Images
     
  8. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,798
    Some teams managed to stay below the weight limit and made floors that didn't flex and still they changed the rules.

    Now the same with the budget cap? I think this is not serious. If they need a rise it could be talked for next year, but they can't keep moving the posts for everything.
     
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Alfa was quite heavily penalized IMO. They managed to stay below the original weight limit but FIA quietly raised it by 3kg after the big teams all complained. Surprise a bigger fuss wasn't made by Alfa, as I think they'd likely have a podium already (Imola)
     
  10. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
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    True, but apart from completely new rules this year that threw out surprises to almost all the teams there are the completely unforeseen events such as the Ukraine war and other factors affecting the cost of everything from fuel to materials and food. If some teams were on the limit, these not inconsequential factors we’ll surely put them out of bounds by a bit.
     
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  11. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,798
    There will always be wars and unforeseen events. Teams could start to use anything as an excuse to bend the budget cap.

    Anyway, I suppose they could make a rule for exceptional expenses: something like reducing the cap for next year or fines.
     
  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Bas
    Inflation worldwide is up massively. Quite easy for the FIA to allow extra spending based on that. Average in the last 10 years was 2.9%, it's up to 6.7% just this year and we're only at the halfway point.

    The only exception I don't understand is freight cost, I was under the impression that F1 paid this for the top 9 teams.
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclaren-fears-it-cant-stay-within-f1-cost-cap-in-2022/10320058/

    McLaren fears it can't stay within F1 cost cap in 2022

    McLaren boss Andreas Seidl admits his team is expecting to breach the Formula 1 cost cap by the end of the season.

    Several top teams have indicated that staying within the cap will be impossible as a result of inflation and rising freight costs, with Red Bull’s Christian Horner suggesting that up to seven teams will go over the total 2022 limit of $141.2m - $1.2m added to the initial $140m for the extra race over the 21-race plan.

    Meanwhile Alpine and Alfa Romeo are resisting a push for an upward adjustment to the cap that would give teams breathing space.

    Seidl still hopes the FIA and the F1 organisation can broker a solution as talks continue to drag on.

    "For us as a team that was planned to run at the cap at the beginning of the year, with all these unexpected costs that came up, we are at a position where we can't make the cap anymore, because you simply have certain fixed costs in order to start the season," he said when asked by Autosport if the team could still stay inside the cap.

    "You have fixed costs with the resources which you have in place, the personnel and so on, which you can't adjust anymore.

    "And with this unexpected huge increase of costs, mainly on the freight side and utility bills, we're in the same position as some other teams that we can’t make the cap this year.

    "And I'm still hopeful with all the conversations that are happening at the moment, together with the other teams, with FIA, and F1 that we still find the solution which is in the best interests of the sport moving forward."
     
  14. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    FORMULA 1 NEWS
    South Africa in contention for 2023 F1 calendar slot
    Formula 1 could revive the South African Grand Prix as early as next year amid ongoing talks between series bosses and the event organisers at Kyalami.
     
  15. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-drivers-back-penalties-for-triggering-flags-in-qualifying/10322129/

    F1 drivers back penalties for triggering flags in qualifying
    Formula 1 drivers have backed a potential FIA initiative to penalise those who trigger red or yellow flags in qualifying, ruining the laps of rivals.


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    By: Adam Cooper
    Jun 14, 2022, 3:13 PM
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    The issue became a talking point in Azerbaijan last weekend after Fernando Alonso went down an escape road towards the end of Q1, bringing out a yellow flag and spoiling the laps of anyone behind who might have had a chance of beating him.

    Alex Albon, who was immediately behind the Alpine driver, made it clear that he thought Alonso had gone off track in a deliberate effort to frustrate his rivals.

    The issue of drivers playing such games, especially at street tracks, made the headlines at the 2006 Monaco GP.

    On that occasion Michael Schumacher was excluded from qualifying after the stewards determined that he had deliberately stopped on track at Rascasse, effectively ending the session early and securing pole position.

    A similar incident occurred at the same venue in 2014, when Nico Rosberg went down the Mirabeau escape road, thwarting the final effort of team-mate Lewis Hamilton. The German survived an investigation without sanction.

    After qualifying for this year's Monaco race, Max Verstappen suggested that penalties should be imposed to those causing red flags after losing his final Q3 lap to someone else's accident for a second year in a row.

    Although there was no official documentation associated with their enquiry, it's understood the FIA stewards conducted an informal investigation of the Alonso incident last weekend, with the Spaniard and Alpine sporting director Alan Permane seen leaving Baku race control on Sunday morning. Team boss Otmar Szafnauer also paid a visit.

    Although the stewards took no action, their suspicions were alerted sufficiently to trigger a discussion about a possible solution to the problem.

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    Fernando Alonso, Alpine

    Photo by: Alpine

    The F1 sporting regulations already contain an article that can be applied to anyone taking an escape road or going onto a run-off area, and which reads: "Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason."

    Appendix L of the FIA's International Sporting Code, which applies to driving conduct, contains a similar clause: "Drivers must use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason."

    The stewards have the discretion to delete any or all lap times if a driver is deemed to have committed an offence that falls within that description.

    If it is agreed between the FIA stewards and the F1 race directors that such a course of action would stop the sort of manoeuvre that Alonso was suspected of, drivers could be warned of potential sanctions as early as the Canadian GP, either in the race director's event notes or in the regular Friday drivers' briefing.

    Awarding penalties for an actual accident that ends a session early, like those involving Charles Leclerc in Monaco in 2021 and Sergio Perez this year, would probably require a further discussion.

    Asked by Autosport about the FIA potentially clamping down on controversial yellow flag situations in qualifying, Alonso said he would support the idea.

    "Yeah, I think so," he said. "There's going to be always difficulties, like now in the [Baku] race, if you crash in one corner or if you park - there was one Haas [Kevin Magnussen] parked in Turn 15.

    "If you park there or you park 10 metres after that, maybe you have a safety car deployment, depending if you take a good position or not. And then we will penalise the Haas driver because he chose the wrong thing?

    "So we need to be careful on how we enter and how we do those things. But yeah, I agree. Especially qualifying it should be different.

    "We are dealing with problems of slow laps, minimum time to respect, traffic in the last corner, tows, no tows. So I think we should be clever and think in another format in qualifying."

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    Lando Norris, McLaren MCL36, heads to the grid

    Photo by: Simon Galloway / Motorsport Images

    Lando Norris, who was also involved in a yellow flag incident in Baku, also supported the idea.

    "Yeah, of course," he said when asked by Autosport if he agreed with a possible clampdown. "I think I was one of the guys who caused the yellow yesterday, but just to get out of the way of Seb [Vettel].

    "I think there's a difference between people doing it by accident, and people doing it to get out of the way of people by not causing blue flags and whatever when you're in qualifying, versus people who quite obviously do it on purpose. Especially when you're one and a half seconds down on a push lap!

    "You always say it until you're the one that does something wrong. And then you're like, #Oh, I wish that rule wasn't introduced', because you've just made a simple mistake, like when I spun in Imola.

    "I guess I say I wish there's no rule but obviously when someone else does it you say you wish there was a rule. It always bites someone at some point. The people who are more vocal about it are the ones who just haven't made a mistake just yet."

    Norris's team-mate Daniel Ricciardo also agreed that a clampdown would be a positive move.

    "It's tough because they'll every incident will probably be a little bit different," said the Australian.

    "But unless you've frickin' totalled your car, if it's just like a little lock-up or an escape road or something, then I feel like if you've caused something then maybe we should look into being penalised or something for it. Maybe a deleted time could be a good way of looking at it."


    Asked about Alonso's claim of innocence after the Q1 incident in Baku, Ricciardo added: "His conviction is impressive! I mean that's the experience. That's why I love him. But I mean, obviously Alex spoke it about yesterday.

    "We all know, we're all kind of playing tricks, and I know Lewis tried to not give us the DRS I think, with Lando. I mean, that's a bit of just tactics and strategy. But then there's kind of the other way of obviously what Fernando did. Maybe deleted laps could be the way forward, we'll see."

    Alonso's team-mate Esteban Ocon also backed the idea of penalties.

    "I think so, because in Monaco and Baku I've been suffering for that in qualifying," he said. "And, yeah, probably people would take more care if they get penalised, and it would be less easy to take a risk and just go down the escape road. I would definitely be in favour of changing that for the street circuits."
     
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  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,734
    Quit throwing red flags when no red flag is necessary and the problem goes away.

    First::
    Red Flag was necessary with Perez at Monaco,
    No Red Flag was necessary with Alonso at Baku.

    Second::
    Get rid of the rule where one section of the track causes all other sections of the track to go slow in qualifying
    OR
    Add 3 minutes to qualifying period for yellow events.
    OR
    Just let 'em go for it.
     
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  17. 20000rpm

    20000rpm Karting

    Jan 3, 2022
    226
    Seems like opening a Pandora's box if you ask me. How do you distinguish between "deliberate" and "safety" measure.
     
  18. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    william likes this.
  19. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Just a guess :
    Fia will impose a minimal ride height and suddenly Mercedes will be in the mix..
    How miraculous it would be isn’t ?
     
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  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I think it'll be either minimum ride height or maximum amount of porpoising allowance, defined by accelerometers. Bad news on the last one is that'll rule Ferrari out completely, but at least we can laugh at Mercedes struggling to get into Q3 in a failed lobbying of their own making.
     
  21. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    No way they impose ride height restrictions—it will be impossible to manage—think 1981. In any case, that’s what the floor plank is there for.

    Also, no way they can impose acceleration limits real time. Any transgression will, in effect, be a post-race penalty. Imagine the chaos with something like that.

    I believe the only thing they can do is allow additional elements in the suspension, like inerters, but to control what is basically an aero problem, they may—like in Indycars—just raise the floor edges relative to the reference plane.
     
  22. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    "what is basically an aero problem, they may—like in Indycars—just raise the floor edges relative to the reference plane."

    Please stop making suggestions that are way too easy. This is F1 and everything must be extremely complicated and expensive.
     
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  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I think a mid-season aero change is not doable either, especially since that penalizes those that control porpoising.

    Do agree regarding height restriction actually now that I think of it. Where do you measure from? Plank or floor edges?

    I think transgressions can be easily monitored. If it happened once or twice it can be seen as an anomaly, but every lap...meatball flag?

    i.e. in any Practice session that weekend do a baseline run at say 3% of top speed in quali. Go over that oscillation and it's meatball time.

    Or, the FIA should tell the teams to simply raise their rideheights at their own digression but stop ****ing moaning to the press about a problem solvable.
     
  24. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    The FIA has this on their agenda. My guess Sommer break
     
  25. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    #525 ingegnere, Jun 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
    It IS as easy as that. This bouncing is an aeroelasticity phenomenon similar to limit cycle oscillations in aircraft. So while it is the interaction of aero, inertia (weight) and elastic (spring) forces, the main driver is the aero and the fact that with the venturi tunnels, these create a divergence which is where the aero loads increase with higher aero deflection—something that is explicitly avoided in aircraft design for exactly the reason to avoid this phenomenon and flutter.

    So, yeah it’s complicated, but easily fixed by either removing the venturi design—do you remember bouncing with last year’s cars?—or reducing the strength of the spike in downforce as the car approaches the ground. All the other stuff like suspension inerters and damping ratios are only ways to cope with the LCO issues.
     
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