Case in point. We still don’t even know exactly what Ferrari did and they got draconian consequences.
Words from Toto "humble" Wolff, furious at his rivals for not agreeing to his painfully obvious manipulation. He's insulted his fellow team principals. Surely they'll agree to his demands now, lol. Ah Toto. From his yearly ''we are the underdogs'' and ''we want real competition'', only to dominate, telling the rest to improve, and once they face some minuscule amount of compeition, run to the FIA with their tails between their legs...you are as see through as glass. So far at least 4 teams have come out against it. Toto Wolff fury at 'pitiful manipulative' F1 rivals - GPFans.com Image Unavailable, Please Login
I don't understand what he is getting at. What Toto Wolff really wants ? Unless missed it, he hasn't said.
I am not sure the technical directive will solve porpoising, it will only hide it. But I still don't know what Toto Wolff wants practically. Really one of Mercedes engineer should speak and explain what Mercedes expects. James Allison who visited Montreal hasn't say what they intend to do to solve what is a design fault.
Cost Cap = no new concept or car. Live with this and make it work the best they can. This year is completely over. The odd lucky podium RedBull or Ferrari give away.
Usually a team that comes up with an uncompetitive car bites the bullet and waits to do better the next year. Mercedes refuses to do that, it seems.
It's abundantly clear that you have no idea how porpoising works. Raise the ride height = reduces ground effect = no more porpoising. You talk about hiding it, as if there is a way to have no porpoising yet still have the amount of downforce they want. It simply doesn't work that way. Raising the ride height IS the way to manage it. It is that simple. ALL teams do it to a level they're comfortable with. Mercedes doesn't want to do it because the floor generates the majority of downforce, and every mm you raise, costs you lap time. They haven't accepted their car isn't top of the field anymore. Their car in reality is probably 5th or 6th best, but hide that by running the car much lower and have the most porpoising. Mercedes build a bad car. Their concept sucks. They need a new concept, which means they'll effectively remain behind Ferrari/Red Bull as the 2023 cars are practically the same as this year. What Mercedes hopes to achieve is a rule change for next year in the suspension area, as that way they can keep their current concept, and be successful.
The FIA is like the NCAA, PGA, etc...A "ruling" body that somehow holds on to power....until it doesn't
That isn't what happen as I understand it. Wolf makes case for a higher minimum ride height that takes away porpoise on all cars. That reduces performance of others and increase merc performance. FIA smarter than that. Everyone knows merc design is flawed. FIA ruling to set a porpoise limit and if violated raise RH 10mm on makes the merc safer but slower. Some others at times may get caught in that FIA safety net but the crying of wolff backfired! Wolff has nothing to cry about because he is the one calling this a safety issue. The FIA addressed the safety issue without effecting the design of the cars. I think it was quite brilliant of the FIA.
You should not under-estimate me: I know how GROUND EFFECT works. Porpoising is just an unwanted by-product of ground effect, just like bottoming. Ground effect is created by the succion provoked by venturi tunnels in the underfloor of a car. Each team has designed its own underfloor, therefore venturi tunnels, from their own calculations. Some will have a mild effect, but some will be very aggressive, thus providing massive ground effect.I said before it's a black art. I suspect Mercedes is in the later category, and that's why their underfloor generates the most porpoising, and bottoming. On paper, the more ground effect you produce, the less you need downforce generated by wings, so in theory, you should be faster. But the unforseen porpoising and bottoming destroy that theory, as Mercedes found out. Obviously you can mitigate that by raising the ride height, but from an engineering point of view, that's not tackling the problem, that's just going around it. The real culprits are the venturi tunnels. What's the point of designing a car with ground effect, and reduce the ground effect?? That's why they are reluctant to do it. I think Mercedes is in a quandary between engineering logic and racing reality, and there must be intense discussion, if not power struggle, between the technical office and the team management. I only speculate, of course. No doubt you can indicate me when Toto asked for a rule change for next year? I must have missed that. Now I read that the technical directive is NOT a rule change. I am not pro-Mercedes in this, BTW, but I just don't understand why everybody is getting so hot under the collar a) because they have designed a bad car this year, or b) because they fear Armageddon is imminent. BTW, that took the heat off the jewelry issue !
Yet a few days ago you claimed to know nothing about it All teams in F1 manage porpoising by ride height. No teams have a solution. I don't need to tell you where toto asked for a rule change, it's painfully obvious that's what he's fishing for! The reason people are getting annoyed with Mercedes is because they clearly designed a **** car, yet try to use it as a weapon by moaning it's unsafe to change the regulations, and we're getting really tired of people on the internet eating Herr Toto's words up as fact so that the rule change comes only to get Mercedes on top again! Mercedes is using people's emotions and manipulating them by saying the rules are unsafe, when it clearly isn't. The Merc drivers have been saying since the first race it'll cause a crash. It hasn't. They're saying they're hurt, and I don't doubt that, but the fault is with their TEAM, no one else. And the rules shouldn't be changed.
I am a layman, not an expert, and I could certainly not explain all the calculations that one needs to design a venturi tunnel; its computational fluid dynamics, way beyond my capability. I read about Ground Effect the first time it came about in F1, in the 70s. I said before, some teams NEVER cracked it, other did. It turned up to be bloody costly as well. I was dumbfounded that Ross Brawn proposed it to the FIA to reduce the wake, and that it was adopted again. It had been abandonned 30 years ago, more or less for safety reasons! That's proof to me that the FIA is losing its touch and that F1 is in great danger of falling in desuetude from its contradictions. At that time the teams used skirts to seal the underfloor and these often failed during races, suddenly leaving the driver with no down force! Apart that you need very stiff suspension to make it work I wonder how you can maintain full ground effect without sealing the floor, and it maybe why Mercedes engineers don't want to raise the ride height. Building a ground effect car, and then getting rid of what it was built for !
Is that not what F1 is all about--never giving up never surrendering--OH WAIT--and staying under the cost cap:: Nevermind: Emily Latella.
Ground effect is created by the LAMINAR flow of air under the chassis. Air entering at the front is accelerated backwards (flows faster than the car is traveling over it) by the low pressure at the rear of the car efficiently reaching under the chassis to the point where the venturi creates a low pressure area. This can be seen in the photos of underbodies if you know what to look at. When you look at F and RB you will see an abrupt area change just prior to the venturi. This creates a non-laminar flow at thigh speeds, lessening DF and drag. Merc is smooth and straight, not sheding DF at high speeds and eating drag reducing top speed--AND propoising. A car moving upwards and downwards does not have stable airflow under the car, and as we see, excess drag. I thing Merc needs to find a way to shed DF at higher speeds (say over 150 MPH) like F and RB.
Adam Cooper @adamcooperF1 3. Hearing more and more about an angry exchange between Toto Wolff and Mattia Binotto re the porpoising technical directive at yesterday's meeting. Christian Horner joined in too... and all of this in front of Netflix cameras!
I concur. This is why I said that raising the ride height would only be a pallialtive, not a cure. Mercedes needs to spend more time studying their underfloor, for it to do what they need, and no more. That takes time and costs money, and I don't even know if a new underfloor could be introduced in the middle of a season. They are probably working a it as we speak, but for next season.
Netflix viewers will love this! The rating will go up. Forget about the racing, F1 is becoming a reality show.
Max has a point, I guess that’s bound to happen when you don’t play games like the MB team https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/verstappen-mercedes-drivers-shouldnt-speak-for-others-in-porpoising-debate/10325216/
