The end of Ferrari, as we know it

I think that you are misinterpreting the definition of "Handling". A good- handling car has predictable, benign, dynamics. A car may be able to generate more "Gs" but if the dynamics are squirrely and it is all over the road, it is not a good-handling car. The early Porsche 917 was a good example. It handled so badly that some drivers would not drive it. Later the problem was solved and it was transformed into a good-handling car.

 

Today an electric car broke the Goodwood hill climb record.

For folks that want Ferrari to return to some nostalgic period, I agree.

There was this guy called Enzo, and he only cared about being #1 in racing.

Not second place (but sounding a certain way),
Not third position (with a particular vibration),
Not fourth to pass the checkered flag (however smelling),
Not fifth (but look have a car that looks like it should have finished first)
and...certainly not sixth place (and having a good dinner after the race)

Again, This guy called Enzo wanted to be #1.

I've always admired and aspired to learn from folks that wanted to be winners. I get some folks are content to quit, and don't mind being losers forever.

Cie' la vie'

 

Predictable is an element. A car can have predictable instability, such that when you reach the a certain speed, it will understeer. Benign is another. Prius and Camrys have very benign handling and give great chassis lean before the coefficient of friction is exceeded. The ability to maintain friction with the surface of the road to a greater than another car in a given set of conditions, yes under control… defines a car that handles better than another (I’ll ague here in a classical sense). A 911 is predictable, but not necessarily benign. If you lift the throttle mid apex, it’s not benign at all. But it can negotiate a corner faster and with greater facility than many others. Feedback is another element. My contention that the modern Kia can handle a given turn, faster, with greater indication to the driver and with better responsiveness to uneven road inputs still stands. If you replace the era cinturatos with a modern compound tire, the multi link suspension in a modern sedan will still provide more compliance in any given road condition in a turn. After experiencing modern handling and suspension geometry… you still think there isn’t rose tinged bliss?

 

They can just roll-it all up and trash it once it does not pan out...

The 'genius' part being they can keep it at arms length...and maybe do a stock offering.

You do realize that after the passing of FKP, the VW board wanted to shutdown Lamborghini, Bugatti, Ducati, correct?

Bugatti is a money pit, easily dispensed with. VW hopes they get some good powertrain work from Rimac for Porsche...

Mate has some 'big plans' all of it using VW's money (and others such as Softbank and GoldmanSachs), but, took 7 years (and counting...) to get their first car (not the C1, 8 total customers), the Nevera, to customers, all 150 of them, doesn't seem like a good investment at all. ($2.4M x 150 = $360m total sales)

Rimac is a completely bankrupt company with plans to spend a billion more on a new factory with super silly things like a cafeteria where you view the livestock you are dining upon, Mate's little passive-aggressive (nutjob) way to attempt to turn you into a vegan.

If it works out, good for them, but I do not see how it works for Rimac. Super tiny product runs, high prices, VW "believes" in them, but only because it "looks good on paper", place to stuff Bugatti, keep the families happy, and with a "big stock offering", would be a nice ticket to ride. But, no IPO for now, no idea how they are "cooking the books" to make it look like they have regular revenue of $500m, bizarre.

 

I was also wondering this. Say you love steam cars, great! I'm not going to go out of my way and make fun of them.

If somebody likes steam cars, does that automatically mean they can't like a La Ferrari? There are literally folks here that say the 296 is a 'boring car' - lordy lordy...Normally I wouldn't care so much, but given this is a Ferrari enthusiast forum = I just didn't expect to see so many Ferrari Lovers eat their own.

All the more silly, well, given Ferrari said they plan to have a pure ICE offering in their lineup for the foreseeable future, what's the issue?

Of course, I'm being rhetorical. We know what's the issue.

Folks have the need to push those 'issues' outside the proper forum here. After all, 0-60 and lap times don't have feelings, nor do they have anything to do with P&R.

 

No, I drove my car regularly between Bartow, WV and Staunton, VA on Rt 250 through the mountains and I consider this was a really fun experience in a truly Grand Touring car. Neutral-tinted sunglasses in place.

 

Which Ferrari's have you owned and currently own?

 

I turned 16 in 1968. I had a buddy who had a hemi with straight pipes, drag slicks, and skinny tires up front. We didn’t know you weren’t supposed to drive slicks in the snow.

Oh, seat belts? You mean those things that have fallen behind the seats?

Back then, you adjusted to the car, not the other way around. I remember once coming around deadman’s curve in a four wheel drift in a VW with my mother driving her Vista Cruiser going the other direction. I just kept going.

Frankly, a lotta people didn’t make it. But those of us who did had a helluva time.


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Did you just copy and paste an earlier post from 12 years ago about Tesla ;-)

You could also look at this way, a guy who is crazy about EVs in Croatia (Not Silicon Valley, VC heaven) built this and they will become a major player.

 

It looks crazy how fast he is going.

 

What you don't understand, or don't accept, is that Ferrari today is another brand, which has nothing to do with the one founded by Enzo and maintained by LCDM.
Today, they have nothing to do with tradition, they don't know it and it doesn't interest them.
The only thing they care about is the share price, and if they were sure to sell a lot of 4-cylinder 4 TTs across the whole range, they would do it without any problem !

 

I know! What’s even crazier is this is just the start of the EV world. It’s sort of like we’re watching a propeller airplane.

I get the sadness, who doesn’t love a P51 Mustang? I love it and it is my favorite plane of all time. Doesn’t mean I think the Air Force should retire their drone program or kill the F35.

 

...and looking so ugly while doing it. Is it running in the Hindenburg class?

 

That's your takeaway? So all the arguments about performance with EV is equal for all and Ferrari is dead, but when you see an ugly car all of a sudden style is important again, and performance is not important ;-)

But don't worry you won't be able to buy anyway, but if you did, this would be a sure investment

People hated the Lamborghini 350 GT, they couldn't sell them and people picked them up used for $6,000 and now they are $750,000 and up

 

There is something I was waiting for someone to point out but I don't think it has happened yet...

Who ever said that EV was the next leap forward beyond ICE?? If it was a leap forward, say from propeller to jet engine, that would be different. Say from jet engine to warp drive, ok. But who ever said going from ICE to EV is a step forward and should be accepted??

 

It is not necessary to choose between performance and style; it is possible to have both at the same time. On the other hand, think of the Wartburg or Trabant- they managed to combine both ugly and slow in the same vehicle! Just because it is fast does not cancel the fact that it is unattractive.

 

Exactly and that is why Ferrari will still have a special place in the market when EV becomes the choice for supercars.

 

Just to give you an idea of how impressive the Goodwood record is, here it is against the old record holder, the McLaren F1 MP4/13

 

BS, and I own a Kia and a V12 with a suspension designed in the early 70s.....no comparison at all, the same curves a Kia's tires are whining for their life, the Diablo can do 100+ without breaking a sweat.

 

Enzo aside, front mounted Ferrari V12s aside , the F8 is the absolute best , baddest ass machine that Ferrari has ever produced since the F40 / 288 GTO - 328 / 308 . its that simple. So those of you with deep enough pockets, that want to stay in the mid mounted V8 game, the F8 should be your weapon of choice. For the second time in my life, Ferrari has produced my dream car, the first being the 308 / 328 , now the F8. So it really does not make a difference what Ferrari does, they cannot design anything else that will come close, electric or whatever. Go to a dealer and stand next to an F8 and you will know what it is that I am talking about. I can only hope that someday , before my time is up, I can have one for myself , crazier things have happened !! lol

Thank you ,

 

Ohh and it was an EV, the Lucid Air, that was the fastest production car, 100% stock, at Goodwood. Driven by Ben 'The Stig' Collins. Heavy four door saloon.

 

cute

 

There isn’t a Kia that could keep up with a 1960’s Lotus Elan on a track or the Malibu canyons.

 

With everything that's going on in this world, I think maybe 4, max. 5 generations will enjoy the brand Ferrari. It's clear the youth growing up now is less and less interested in making money, driving sports cars etc. All of this is a global thing and I reckon in 50-75 years the market for all of this as we know it it gone.

I don't really think tradition has to do with it. The world does not need any of this anymore. V8, V10, V12.. Our car hobbies are negligible as there's probably not even food, housing or maybe even sufficient water and/or energy for our great grandchildren.

I don't want to sound like a grumpy old man haha. But reading all of these 16 pages, all I can think of is: what are we talking about?

I don't believe Ferrari will be around too much longer with the developments of the past few years, so I think we shouldn't hover in the past too long and just enjoy the brand as it is here right now. Enjoy what it gave us and don't care about 'what it should do or should not do'.

 

Once put an original 1974 Lotus Europa JPS (when the car was about 7 years old) into a slight 4 wheel drift at 100mph in each corner through a series of corners, let me know when you do that with a modern unmodified Kia. Granted, a lot dime a dozen cookie cutter modern cars might be faster from 0-60 then older cars, and there are some that are even better in cornering at their limits. But learn to appreciate the experience of a high performance vehicle for their abilities in relationship to their build timeframe.

I have a Hyundai Elanta that I used as my 'leave it at the train stop and not worry' while working in the city. Took the Elanta (approx same age as the Lotus was) through the same series of corners (the road now had a nice wide shoulder approx a lane wide on each side), and when I hit the first corner at about 75mph, not so much fun.

Sure, modern plumbing is better than the Roman aqueducts, but you can't deny they were an amazing feat for the time. How about music, photo, and video, sure digital might be better is many aspects, but there are a lot of people that still appreciate old record players and classic films shown on a big screen. Heck, cars are superior to horses, but some people still appreciate horses.