How do you see Maserati / Ferrari between (1999 - 2004)?

Ferrari owned 50% of Maserati in 1997 and 100% in 1999-2004.

Put another way, do you consider the companies during that era similar to say Lexus/Toyota and or GM/Cadillac?

 

Honestly..they were both building over priced crap. The 360 had issues it never should have had..seemed rushed to market honestly. The 430 is what the 360 should have been IMHO.

They could have corrected so many issues with that car..but failed.

The Maserati..was actually not a bad machine. However the chassis was it's weak point in spider form. Horrible at best. Uncomfortable seating position..manual gearbox was OK.. but the f1 shift..ugh.. awful. The QP was an absoult turd..until 2008..and is still a turd just less so. Currently it is still a turd along with every other Maserati offering.

Ferrari is heading in the same direction unfortunately.

 

Ferrari/Maserati during that time is also reminiscent of the same period when Ford owned Aston Martin. Not great, but that was the era of my youth and so those cars mean the most to me.

The Vanquish should have been such a bespoke car. Instead, it was fitted with switchgear from a Focus. Literally.

 

Curious, Hagerty recently declared the gen 5QP a Ferrari. What makes it a piece of crap?

 

I definitely sympathize, I’m fact this is probably the number one complaint when Maserati went away from being 100% Ferrari owned and back to what is now Stellantis.

Dodge switchgear.

However when Ferrari owned 100% of Maserati (even sold them side by side in Ferrari dealerships) the borrowed parts bin often came from Ferrari.

So besides your critique on raising the corporate parts bin, did you have other thoughts?

kind regards

 

Well damn.

 

I sure wish I knew my gated 360 was such a piece of crap before I bought it! At least it is one of the nicest looking pieces crap in the post carburetor era and I might be able to offload it to some unsuspecting idiot for 2x what got suckered into…

 

Ownership opinion possibly.

 

I suppose I was a bit too blunt in calling the car crap. It is not. I fact I quite like them. However..I do believe it was a car that was rushed into production before it was perfected. The F430 fixed all the issues the 360 should have never had. A 6 speed 360 is a joy to drive..and a 2004 360 with the f1 is the best of the bunch.

Like anything else..mistakes were made. Think 996 Porsche of the same era.

That said..they are still better then most. Which says a lot.

 

Possibly, that’s exactly why I’m asking why the 360 and QP 5 are crap, that’s all. My experiences with both have been nothing short of glorious, that’s why I’m asking for specifics.

 

Come now, 360s are generally far more reliable and sorted then the 355, and the 575 more so then the 550. (I am only using them as goal posts because of the specified years). There were still a lot of electrical gremlins and stupid decisions (stickies!) but much improved from just a few years earlier. and while parts cost jumped, actual labor was getting easier with the move away from engine outs.

If anything, that period represents the transitionary period for Ferrari as they moved away from The older construction practices used mainly for the 348/355/512 to the new generation of cars 456 on. It most definitely was not an easy transition and they definitely used the 355 and 456 has active test beds (and less so 360/575).

I have no strong opinion about Maserati, personally. The last model that they made I actually had any strong desire for was in the 70s….mc12 wasn’t a Masi

 

Maserati is an awful car from top to bottom. The last half decent car from them was the 4200 cambriocorsa and Grandsport. Those cars were OK.

The Qp, Ghibli, that suv thing..absolutely trash. It's getting to the point of not even allowing them in the door at the shop. They are just not worth the headach.

The buyers have zero understanding of what they bought.. they just know it was expensive. What they don't know is they bought a sub standard junk box. Build with cheap materials..and terrible engineering. Trying to explain why thier car is constantly chewing the tires off of it is getting tiresome when they refuse to fix the expensive front end issues they all have. I absoulty hate the things.

 

I bought a new 2001 Maserati spyder and kept it like 12 years. I still think it was a beautiful GT. I never had any problem (well, they all in the first year had an F1 pump problem that was fixed by the dealer) but the top finally gave out so I traded it.

The interior was excellent and perhaps the best part of the car. The seats very comfortable but not very sporty.

To me I saw it as a sub-brand of Ferrari. My next step was an F430 spider which is still one of my favorite cars.

I would never buy one of the "modern" cars like a Ghibli. Why go through all that pain?

 

My 2004 Vintage Spyder was the prettiest car I’ve ever owned. If I knew how to post pics from my phone, I’d send one.

At the track? I would start laughing. But somewhere I have a picture of me chasing down an Enzo at TWS. It’s the driver, not the car.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Gotcha! It’s the reliability that you don’t like. That I get. I agree they are not the easiest cars to work on, but I don’t think they are the hardest.

 

The impetus for the question was Hagerty’s declaration. Given Ferrari had a sub brand before, (and we know what happened there)

 

I always said that a Maserati had all the headaches of owning a Ferrari but it isn’t a Ferrari. After Chrysler stuck the name on their LeBaron I wanted nothing to do with them.

 

I get what you're saying, but what if you wanted a Ferrari that's 4 doors that's not an SUV? I guess there's the Lancia too, but that was just the engine. I mean many of the parts in the QP5 are shared with other Ferrari of the time.

 

I would never want a Ferrari with four doors.

 

I respect that. Some folks hate the M3 for just that reason. Good thing Ferrari will soon offer both to cover all bases. I never had an issue with the M3 AND M4 or say in the exotic world the LMP002. I never had an issue with the Panamera/Taycan, well - because 918/GT2 RS.

Cheers

 

Unlike a Ferrari something makes it alright for a M3 to have 4 doors.

 

I understand purists lamenting the 4-door/SUV (heck even 4-seat) dilution. I never had a problem with it as long as it didn't affect their other 'harder-core' offerings.

For example, the V6 Dino (the darling of today's world) didn't mean Ferrari wouldn't make the 288 GTO.

To be even more hardcore, the Roma doesn't stop FXX.

To the anger of many here, I have strong opinions about the business end of Ferrari along with their cars. I tend to support things that are unpopular to purists for pragmatic financial reasons.

 

Ferrari as a company is trying to do right for their shareholders. Company profits and what real purists want are two different things. In my view from what I see up here, most owners of new Ferraris bought their car as status symbols. Kind of like how Rolls Royce Cullinan buyers aren’t going to take it 4X4ing.

 

I get what you're saying, but I think the Big Tent philosophy is the best way to run the business.

Have a Ferrari 'seat' for every type of 'butt'

Professionals = F1
Hardest Core Enthusiasts = Corse Clienti
Harder Enthusiasts = Big Brother / V12
Hard Enthusiasts = Small Brother
Enthusiasts = GTs
Status Symbol + Collectors = Icona

Poor cheap skates like me = used market

 

Have had 3 2006 Maseratis and still own 2: Qp base and Gransport.

The Qp is one of the prettiest and stylish sedans ever made imo! Add the ferrari v8, suspension, F1 (if driven properly), and I think it is the perfect mating of two companies. I actually enjoy driving my Qp more than my Alfa Quadrifoglio! And I am a driver by heart (track my c6z06 monthly and other cars for 18 years now).

The coupe design is absolute elegance, although I do have to admit the Italian driving position of "needing longer arms when the seat is in the right position" seat position is horrible.

About 120k miles between all three over the years and much more reliable than my Mercedes v12.

Can't speak for some of the soulless Maseratis of late though...hope the mc20 proves me wrong