Sorry if I started all this, or maybe revived a long running feud. People like Taz and Seth are perfectly happy with their F1 cars, enjoying the upsides, fast effortless shifts in manual and working around the downsides by not bothering with automatic. I would imagine later ECUs improve early cars and can be fitted ? Anyway, Shock-horror the DCT on my F12 is still crap in automatic. 812 owners say the same. It might be more relaxing in town but is deathly dull out of it. Changes up far too soon in my opinion. Solution ? Same as my illustrious 575 forbears above; it’s a Ferrari so drive it in manual. Back to the thread topic, apologies Darius, out of curiosity I would like to know who is doing these conversions. Is one particular shop becoming know as the ‘go to’ place by doing multiple/reliable jobs? Is anybody in Europe doing it? Have any examples been seen in Europe. Is there a shed and the sound of hammering around the back of Slades ? That would explain a lot Where are the gear boxes coming from? 550 salvage I assume? Morally I am ambivalent. Whilst I like originality, it really is up to anybody to do what they want with their 575 especially if it is reversible. The market always favours originality but there is more to life than the market.
I don't know, actually. You're in the US which is a different market, and you actually sold your car so you have a real price point, which is why I was curious. I don't know how much these cars go for in the US. I can surmise that manual cars seem to have a bigger premium there, and conversions aren't really a thing here in Europe, although maybe they will be. But if you don't want to estimate, no problem. In any case I appreciate you providing a price point for this thread with your own car's sale price.
Hi Graham, I haven't actually heard of any conversions in the UK or Europe, maybe others have? 575 gearbox is not the same as a 550 gearbox but you don't need to change gearboxes anyway for a conversion. Although you would if you were converting your F12.. None of these boxes drive well in auto, though on a lazy day in town you could be forgiven for using auto mode..I do slip the supercars I review into auto sometimes while driving through London traffic. Shameful though it is to admit it. As for changing up too early, all cars now do it for emissions. It's infuriating. F8, 911 TTS, Huracan RWD, in auto, they're all in 8th gear by 30 mph. Even worse with the turbocharged cars (most of them) where you're pootling around at 1000 rpm with less pickup than a group A rental car. My Brabus likes to change into 9th gear at 34 mph in comfort mode, at which point its spinning at 950 rpm and even a 600 hp tuned V8 in a C class feels quiet. Anyway, that's another topic.
If you’re happy with your car that all that matters. Technology has progressed though. Compare the technology and driveability in a 575 F1 to an Audi R8 DCT or a 458 or a 488. You decide if there is much of a difference. I won’t editorialize. Decide for yourself. Meanwhile I’ve come to my own opinion and it’s not going to change because it’s my opinion. And yes, I did own an F1 Maranello. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Lorenzo- Sorry, but I cannot help myself. The transmissions in F1 and 3 pedal Ferraris of the same model are identical, only the shift and clutch actuation mechanisms are different. On most, they even use the same throw-out bearing with different seals to account for the difference between brake fluid and F1 fluid (synthetic ATF). So F1 production Ferraris are cars with manual transmissions with electro-hydraulic actuation of the transmission and clutch. No torque converter is involved, which explains why Auto mode does not work like an automatic transmission.
And wait: here’s one for you- “In my opinion, I prefer Rocky Road Ice Cream to non fat Butterscotch Ice Cream”. Now all you experts out there with nothing better to do can spend the next month and a half telling me I’m wrong and that I don’t know how to eat ice cream. Have at it! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
..................with pleasure! Your post demonstrates your failure to distinguish between opinion and fact. Your opinion is what it is: your opinion. It's your facts that you've got wrong. Out.
Please define the fact that I got wrong. I said the 575 F1 trans felt cumbersome (ponderous) to ME. How is my subjective evaluation of a transmission, compared to others that I have driven, a “fact” that I got wrong? There are objective facts and there are subjective opinions. My opinion is mine, it is subjective, and if you disagree, that’s fine. If everyone liked the same thing we’d all root for the same ball team and be married to the same wife. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Not sure the conversion trend will pick up in Europe - in the US there seems to be some "mystique" about manual cars because regular cars have been auto torque-converter abominations for decades, whereas in Europe most humble cars actually have manual gearboxes (with the rise of electric cars it may change though). So the F1 system (which is an automated manual gearbox, with electrical command and hydraulic actuation) is more seen as a dated technical improvement, not as whatever loss of some worshipped technology. Of course the DCT is on another level, but it's just from another time.
I accept the amendment - it's your opinion that's all upgef--ked (auf Deutsch). See this film clip of Michael Schumacher cumbersomely handling an F1 transmission in a Maserati Spyder. I owned and enjoyed a Maserati Spyder F1 (they call it cambiocorsa) for seven years; never had the transmission in automatic. Note how cumbersome are Michael's fingertips (second and third fingers, right hand) as they flick the right paddle !
I want to assuage the feelings of those that were hurt by my words. “ In my opinion the F1 575 transmission is better than the F1 355 transmission”. I suppose the 355 guys will come after me now. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I’m going to see if I can find a Video of Jean Alessi driving a 355 with F1. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Being a later version the 575 F1 is better because they've been working on it - so that could be a fact... my opinions are that the 355 F1 system is terrible and the 575's is rather good (although not as good as its ultimate development on the 599).
If the 599 was the ultimate development, were all those thereafter without improvement? Or are you referring to that particular design basis. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
There was no evolution of the F1 system (automated manual) after the 599 and 430 Scuderia since the F12 and 458 adopted the DCT which is not an evolution but a totally different technology.
Superfast II in the GTO and Scuderia/16M and their small diameter, twin disc clutches were the ultimate F1 systems.
Speaking of preferences by territory, a quick search here from my holiday in Italy shows the following: On mobile.de, the biggest Euro website, zero manual 575s on sale on Pistonheads, the UK site, one manual 575 on sale for £180k. I am discounting the Slades “cars” Any estimates on how many on the market in the US?
I looked recently, only one for sale was a converted one at a Ferrari dealer. I spoke to an independent dealer that just sold an 18k mile, non FHP for 375k
I guess a lot of owners are in hold mode. Why sell now if the trend is your friend? There may come a time when that changes. Crystal balls are less reliable than 80s Ferraris so I don’t know. I thought the U.K. car that was auctioned on line recently was about the right price, in that I could imagine paying that. But that is me, a driver and enthusiast rather than a collector.
On longer term manual gearbox can even be problem for younger generations. Its likely babies born today do not have any new cars to practice driving manual simply because new ones aren't made by time they reach driving age. As much as we all like ICE cars its very likely all new cars will be electric in not too long in future simply because it makes financial sense. For example BMW making both i4 and 420 is just stupid if almost everyone buys i4 anyway. In the end ICE do not even have to be killed by law. They are cut by auto manufacturer finance departments simply to streamline production to only one driveline type. This means no more new cars with manual gearboxes. Which means new drivers simply do not get license to drive manual. At least in EU if one wants to legally drive manual one needs to take driving test with one. How one does that if no new manual cars are available for driving schools. Take automatic test first and then borrow granddads Testarossa for parking lot rehearsals and separate manual driving test is only way to do it. Whole driving manual thing is going to be dying art. All that doesn't mean I wouldn't do F1 to manual conversion. I would do it to 599 if I had one and even would seriously look into doing it to Aventador which wasn't ever available as manual if I had one of those also. Doesn't matter how much slower 0-60 time is or whatever. Manual is just more fun. Doing major change to F1 575 is little different as its just easier to get 550. Minor difference in speed is meaningless when more modern DSG models like F12 are soon about same price if 550 and 575 prices keep going up while F12 keeps coming down.
I heard that the super rare/super expensive 599 manual is a difficult drive. The drive train with the Enzo engine was specifically designed for an F1 gearbox. Therefore, although intriguing, a manual conversion may be a more complex proposition.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147759567/ I haven't consolidated the full, in depth debrief of the 599 (which was converted w/ OEM + Trevor's firmware patch to the OEM management) - but that solves the drivability issue. That was prior to the warm driving season, so I've subsequently logged a good number of miles and can confirm that it's incredible.
