812 Replacement Rumors

By the way, to everyone calling that mule a “V12 Roma” thinking it’ll replace the 812…


It’s a one-off variation of the 812 named SP43…


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That's exactly what I thought a while back...
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148438853/

so, that would seem to indicate that no F167 mule has been seen just yet...hmm, curious

 

No. SP43 has already been unveiled as the Omologata, https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/corporate/articles/ferrari-omologata-a-new-one-off-creation

 

I enjoy these speculation threads- especially when we keep it civil.

I would love to see a replacement that is a bit physically smaller. Thats one of the things I really love about the 296- and that the design became a bit cleaner.

I love cars like the Pista, its gorgeous, but for me its just on the right side of being too busy, too many fussy elements, and its visual size.

Maybe throw in the independent rear steer from the Comp and the new 8 speed gear box and perhaps a little less top of the performance tree, and (just a little) more GT role.


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That's what the Purosangue is for. The 812 replacement will inevitably be even more performance focused, as a new Ferrari should.

 

SP59

Luque

 

Really really could be, soft top roof…


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Do we know when the 812 replacement is expected to be announced?

 

2023

 

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Have we confirmed this is not a customer one off and is the actual replacement driving around? Also, how confident are we that it’s a NA V12? I know it wasn’t. Then it was. However, when I mentioned to my sources inside Ferrari all they said was Purosangue expected to be the last and don’t believe everything you read online.

They also said it with a smile so it was a bit hard to read [emoji848]


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@maha
more here:

https://www.quattroruote.it/news/foto_spia/2022/08/23/ferrari_f167_v12_motore_uscita_anticipazioni.html

 

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The article seems to suggest the possibility of a V12 with mild hybrid?

 

@day355

A mild hybrid is possible but seems unwarranted as it would not have any true impact regarding compliance with upcoming Euro 7 regulations and would greatly increase complexity of the drivetrain for an engine series that Ferrari is moving away from.
Found this recent review of mild hybrid and related technologies:
https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/mild-hybrid-emissions-jul22.pdf

If the upcoming FUV features mild hybrid then I presume F167 will also include, but, if FUV has no mild hybrid I believe we can rule it out for the F167.

There have also been suggestions elsewhere that the test car being seen is not the F167 replacement but something else, maybe SP59 and we have not yet seen a test mule for F167...

 

Every hybrid mule, from all manufacturers that I can recall all have the warning sticker on them, I presume for emergency personnel. I don't see it on this mule.

 

Nor have any electrical warning tags been seen on any FUV mule...only on the SF90/LaF mules for the next hypercar and other upcoming editions...

The electrical warning stickers are required when a system of greater than 60v is in-use as that level and beyond can cause substantial injury and death, less than 60v systems do not require warning.

 

The million dollar question is, will there be a hardcore version... If there is one, in NA V12, it will be the ultimate, absolute ferrari keeper

We'll see in 2025

 

As was said with the F12, 812, etc [emoji6]


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Remember, Ferrari dismantled their V12 team when they publicly fired Leiters, so I expect no new developments, just minor tweaks for emissions regulations (ever more quiet exhausts, etc) as for a F167VS, let's see if they actually release the F167 first...(going against the grain here, but I do wonder especially with ever tightening, recent, Euro 7 regulatory discussions)

It would not surprise me if the F167 is a limited (numbered) edition and not available to all.

 

Agreed on top of the fact performance may not change that much due to regulations the sound will be awful and finally with a chance of digital display in the interior and a car being even heavier and higher production number ( as is the 812c/812ca vs tdf/599gto) and finally with a design most likely not as beautiful as its predecessors. The ultimate version is already behind us imo : that’s the f12tdf. That’s already showing in Europe. Build slots of 812C are selling around 800/850 euros net ( including premium) while good low mileage example of f12tdf are on the market near 1.5mm euros. That says everything imo

 

I could be wrong, but analyzing the dimensions of the F167 mule, even though it is a body disguised as "Roma", it is noted that the rear will be even shorter and with a greater angle of descent than the F12/812. It will have the longer hood as well. The proportions resemble a, say, 250 GTO, but with today's dimensions. Something tells me this car might be inspired by the 250 GTO, as it's a tribute to the V12.
It has already been said that the design will be brilliant. So that + F140 engine will be a hit.

 

In the USA, the F12TDF market literally changed the day the 812C was revealed, all available cars suddenly increased asking by 25% or more. Yes, the 812C is no TDF, never will be as the markets have recognized. And, I believe there is no escaping the digital interior on every new model forevermore. The digital interior is used in the SP3, an Icona! Completely contrary to that idea...

 

If the V12 team was dismantled then that's it for Ferrari traditionalists. So easy to rinse/repeat the same engine with adding more and more hybrid electric. The LaF route with camming it for top-end and back filling with electric. No other way forward with the V12 without a development team.

Based on what's been discussed with the replacement over the last few months it makes sense that it went back/forth with hybrid/no hybrid. Thev could have been very close to a complete engine but its not where the new team wants to go so maybe/maybe not. Too soon for a complete hybrid as well. Could have gone either way which means it could be delivered late to get the bugs out of what was decided and be competitive.