I hear you however we also know that some of the buyers of the 812SF were also people wanting for the latest / fastest… and hence why the demand dropped when the SF90 was announced. If the car is aimed at only the purists therefore why would purists agree to pay probably double or close to an 812 if the engine is similar only because of a body reshape? And despite the fact it will be quieter, digital? If the aim is to get a pure v12 experience with classic lines you have the F12 for that, you can buy a used 812 or a GTS all for less or much less money and with potentially better sound and emotion. I doubt Ferrari can bet only on the purist community by making an 812 replacement with a similar engine while asking a lot more money for it simply on the basis the design will now be more “pure” or “classic”? Wouldn’t that contradict the entire design language from Manzoni and what they’ve been looking to achieve with the 812/SF90/F8/Pista/SP3?
Got your point. In fact, a lot of the 812 audience wants the latest/fastest, but compared to the predecessor. I believe that if the F167 is minimally faster than the 812C, it will be enough for those who want the "faster" attribute. Another point is that, apart from being V12, the 812 and Aventador were no longer exactly competitors. The 812 with a front engine, the Aventador with a single-clutch, etc. Now that the Lambo will be a hybrid and the F167 will not, the brands have made their positions clear, their proposals will be even more different. Otherwise, I think the F167 will have good surprises in terms of construction, performance, dynamics, etc. I believe it will not be an 812C with another bodywork. Regarding prices, there is no way to say anything with more than a year to go before the launch. And on the "digital" issue, although I think the Ferrari digital dash is well made, I will always prefer analog dash, I really wanted it to be offered, even if optional.
I do not believe many "cross shop" the Ferrari V12 and Lamborghini V12 (outside a few magazine/other tests). Only the Ferrari hypercar V12s 'compared' to the Lamborghini V12 in terms of outrageous looks, the standard production Ferrari V12 is a much quieter design in comparison. So, what is the F167 competing against? Nothing at all, in fact, it almost never happened (and until reveal, still has not happened, remembering that Ferrari themselves have not said it will specifically exist). Now that its place in the hierarchy is diminished, its role is new and historically unprecedented. The V12 is no longer the top model in power or price. The 812SF coupe was cancelled due to this new role. The 812GTS only survived because it offered a new experience, that roof. As indicated earlier by @day355, we will all be talking about the roof of the F167. Hmm, putting that together, I imagine the appeal of the F167 will be similar to that of the 812GTS, open top driving, but, maybe the F167 will be a full convertible (soft top, not a hardtop coupe). That plus the front hinged bonnet and maybe some other visual treats will be what attract buyers, to the experience. Ferrari knows the upcoming sound (noise level) regulations will diminish the exhaust note, but for those attracted to a full open top driving experience, it will be highly desirable (reference the 812GTS, a simple, but open top experience). Question is, will it be manually operated top or somehow mechanized (look to the Roma Spider, when revealed, for clues). You might think Ferrari is moving into the Aston Martin space with a full convertible and I think you are correct, but, it will be a Ferrari like no other. That is, if my speculations are accurate. Otherwise, if the F167 is a hard top coupe I expect it to be of interest to some, but probably not as many as a full open top. And with all the new EU required driving controls, it may be a frustrating experience so the appeal will be less than the 812SF (hard top). As for the engine, I expect the F167 to have the same engine power as the SP3 and same redline, if so, that will certainly help motivate some buyers, a Ferrari V12 with a 9500rpm rev limit, hmm, what a treat that would be....I doubt Lamborghini will be matching that!
the 812 has never been a competitor of the aventador, and the 167 will not be either, its positioning being different. Objectively, the two customers are very distinct. Technically the V 12 Ferrari and the V 12 Audi have nothing to do. The Lambo engine is full of inertia by comparison. I remind you that from the F 12, the engine takes its genes from the 599 XX. The gearbox is day and night... And there is a "show off" side at Lambo that doesn t exist at Ferrari...
Quite honestly, I don't think so, as the V 12 Ferrari is so rich in tonal variations at all speeds. A simple valve opening remote control allows you to take advantage of it.
Honestly I hope Ferrari finds a way forward with the V12 to get it to the 1000hp mark without hybridization due to the weight penalty of batteries Since conventional turbos kill the sound, maybe the electric ones will solve that issue or how about a supercharged V12- more power, torque and great sound with minimal weight penalty. Time for the Ferrari engineers to think out of the box! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
No interest ! what do you do with 1000 hp for more than 1700 kg on the open road ??? With the V 12, you buy an experience, not a number... It is these arguments that often go back to the marketing of "always more useless hp" that lead to the manufacture of ego and no longer cars.
If I were the management of Ferrari, you would have been entitled to a T 50 and a T 33 normal production in Ferrari design, with a DCT gearbox variant for those who prefer And besides that, I make you hybrids and electrics of 3000 hp for those who enjoy it, pollution standards and race rating
The Bizzarrini engines produce a wonderfully unique sound signature; The Audi V12 with fake pops and crackles, more of an acquired taste
As Peter noted some years ago "the Lamborghini has a good V12 but the rest of the car is junk" so really no valid comparison with the Ferrari V12 car anyway.
I took a closer look at the Ferrari Prototyp Areal on Google Maps. I noticed a silver (or light grey) vehicle that is definitely not a Roma and looks very special. The roof and rear window form a unit (Long roof), and there are also wide hips. The windscreen could be designed as a kind of visor, similar to the 296 GTB. It's also a front-engined car for sure, and nearly as long as the Roma (but with wider hips). Too bad the resolution of the photo is so bad.
NO surprise with a name JTSE30 . I bet you have a PTS Porsche painted SE30... PETER Mann the Swiss Ferrari collector doesn't post here anymore but I doubt his opinion of the Aventador has changed.
Not even close. The Ferrari V12 is much "screamier". By definition, a turbocharger is powered by the exhaust gases. An electric "turbo" is a supercharger. Actually it is 100% Lambo, the Aventador V12.
If your going V12 then you can just about get to 1k hp with displacement and rpm. Go big and add the mechanics and electronics to make use of it. Your not going to meet emissions anyway so use your exception and don't hold back. Give us the real deal. This discussion was had before and lots of fancy techniques were suggested but Ferrari just went from 6.3L to 6.5L. It doesn't have to start with a 6. This unfortunately is a dream that will not be fulfilled.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/stretched-ferrari-roma-with-v12-engine-previews-812-successor-197057.html
I was referring to a 6.5 litre N/A V12 making some 1000 HP. I am aware of that development mule, but we don;t really know what's under the bonnet.
