812 Replacement Rumors

To get to 1000hp from a Ferrari V12 without any assist, based on 830hp from 6.5L, that would require an engine at least 7.83L, might as well make it 8L; agreed no way that is going to happen, would require a very substantial investment and years of development, plus the thought... 8L V12, 65degree, what a gargantuan motor that would be!

Would be something like this:

 

Damn


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The Roma prototype, despite what is said, is the development of 167.
I confirm it again

 

Why must if have 1000hp?

You guys have rightly put your finger on the fact that the V12 is about the experience. That should continue.

Until the SF90, the V12 was tasked of being the power king, and thus, being the performance king. And they really did an amazing job with the F12 and 812. But, at least to me, I find it a bit of a relief that maybe they could make a car not as physically large and not quite as intense in its persona, maybe it can be a little bit more romantic and sweet to drive and enjoy. I found the 812 to be a bit big and a bit conflicted between being a hypercar (the drivetrain) or a GT (the size and the layout). Dont get me wrong, its epic, but over time I felt the conflict in the car. I think the GTS strikes a better balance by being just a touch less intense overall.

Now they have the SF90 to carry the ultimate performance mantle, so they have some room for the V12 to “let its hair down” so to speak. Thats my hope, anyway….


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Just a prediction. 6.5L from 812 with 48V mild hybrid. 900+ hp. Looks wise a Roma that ate a big dinner sporting a PlayStation dashboard.

 

You bring up an essential point.
Today's cars are too big, and for a V 12, the ideal size they should have kept is 550/575 !!!

 

100 Percent correct regarding size. Also without the Turbo; cooling requirements would be more modest to.

 

To me the F12 had perfect proportions. 599 too big, 812 too big and behaviour often departing from what a GT should be. The F12 is Ferrari’s ultimate production series GT

 

My bet is the replacement will have a 6.5L V12 with mild hybrid or some form of assistance. No way Ferrari will accept to stay behind in the V12 horsepower race against lambo. And they will charge easy a further 100k for it. Another bet : it will be all digital inside and sound a lot quieter

 

I'm not sure that the F12 is a GT, even if it has the properties and the weight ... and that's the real magic trick, I really discovered it differently as a passenger with a professional pilot friend at the wheel . She is really very balanced and responds simply to riding, provided you let her live and do not force her.
Really very effective !
The dimensions of the 812 are identical, there are just wider tracks

 

The current V12 has reached its limits. A new design though could reach said power, keeping the same size though. Cosworth did it, so can Ferrari.

That's funny, given that the 812 is only a few centimetres longer and wider than the F12 and they share the same wheelbase...

 

You are right about the actual dimensions to me though having owned both i always felt that the 812 looked a lot bigger visually and often too aggressive for a GT. The F12 looked more balanced, compact, smoother to drive with the ability to scream like an F1 car when you ask for it.

 

I like your Ferrari with clear differentiation!

Heritage - cars that appeal to the senses in a classical, yet elegant design. Offer a manual on some models and accept bids from outside Italian design studios maybe 80%/20% (internal/external). Like T50, T30 but normal production - so 296, 812 replacement no hybrids and Icona models. Not part of horsepower war. 2030 = 15% of production.

New Technology - EVs and Hybrids. Focus on leading edge performance and branded GTs. Makes chairman happy -so he stays out of the rest). Ferrari studio designs. Full EV Roma, PS, 296 and Rimac type hypercar (2,000hp). Keep SF90 hybrid range (mix new tech and pilot). 2030 = 80% of production.

Pilots - cars that purists can relate to -
most money spent pulling weight out of car and engines. Cars that owners can track and whose performance window only higher caliber drivers can access. As the old timers use to say “Cars designed by and for people born with a stopwatch in their hands.” Zero money spent on engine sound development and other marketing bs - performance objectives dictates design and sound. Highest mean piston speed N/A V12 & V6 engines. Type 1 like Senna rival with super compact high speed 3.0 V6 and Type 2 like Valkyrie with high speed 6.5 V12. 2030 = <5% of production - sold exclusively via Ferrari Attività Sportive GT.


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Correct me if I am wrong here. But my understanding is Ferrari essentially let go of one or multiple of there V12 development team over the last 6 to 12 months and If I understand correctly, they are not being replaced. So, does that not mean that a new/redesigned or heavily update V12 is off the cards?

I know there were people within Ferrari at the beginning of the LaFerrari development that were pushing then to go V8 Twin Turbo plus electrify.

Maybe Ferrari should just weld two of their amazing V6s together.

My Guess is the current V12 has been able to do late 800s to early 900s for over a year and Ferrari is just opening up 20 odd horse power to each new V12 model till they hit that end cap. which would give then say 2 - 3 years more life.

 

Ferrari just parted way with its previous Chief Technical Officer, that's all.

 

812SF: 789hp
SP1/SP2: 809hp
812C: 819hp (9500rpm)
SP3: 830hp (9500rpm)
FXX K: 848hp (6.3L, 9500rpm free of exhaust emissions requirements and factory maintained because it is not made for durability...)

I sincerely doubt Ferrari can make 900hp from the existing V12 regardless of tweaks and remain street legal (i.e. emissions compliant)

Their latest V6 is 120degree, for hot-nested turbos, no thanks on a V12...

 

Great points and discussion, the only thing we know for sure: time will tell.


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Are you talking about the car...or the driver?

 

I disagree. Had an F12. Traded it on an 812 SF. Neither are GTs. They are sports cars, the latter dramatically better in performance (and it ain't even close).

Want a GT? Get one of the Ferrari station wagons (the old low ones or the new high one) or an Aston or Bentley.

As far as styling is concerned- the F12 is a beautiful car, IMO the 812 SF just plain sexy.

I just hope they don't tone down the 167 styling wise. That would be a major step backwards. There is a fine line between reserved and boring.

 

the car !

 

F12:
Dive, roll and gearing. Too much vertical movement to be effective on track- great for Ferrari Day parade laps though!

Make a mistake and the weight penalty is unyielding. Unrecoverable: you don't just get a push, you drop a sea anchor behind you. When driven fast on track one needs to be millimeter perfect. But quite fun.

 

Frank you forgot to compare the F12 vs 812 brake performance on track. Maybe even throw in a certain 812 picture...

 

Nearly 30-40 y less from 176 mph (or is it meters at COTA? Before the 200 marker with the F12 to about 175 with the 812).

Thanks for the shameless plug.......he he he

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Have you tried different springs, lowering, spacing, corner weighting, and calibration? You can have very fast parade laps!