Matching numbers

Google is your friend!

 

Your best bet is to ask your friendly local Ferrari main dealer. For a 308, the information won't be in their system (except for the unlikely chance that they supplied the car originally) so they will need to ask Ferrari Classiche. Either or both may or may not be helpful. If the original warranty is still with the car then that should have the engine number written on it.

 

Provide Chassis number

Also, the spark plug wires run at top side of the valve cover not lower. Otherwise heat from exhaust manifold will cook it.

 

At one time there should ahve been a silvery tag on the underside of the engine cover that had the color.
You can check the original color using the VIN number thru the ferrari website.

The frame number is stamped on the top of the frame on the RH side back near the charcoal canister. It should match the steering column number.

There are also some numbers stamped above the coil brackets but i can't remember what they signified. The engine number is associated (by date as i recall) with the frame number but they are not the same numbers. Someone here has that info.

There are also a couple threads here in the past couple years with a bunch of info about this.

Doug

 

With the 3x8 vintage of Ferrari it doesn’t much matter if the engine is original or not (and it is extremely likely that it is the original engine). Technically, all that matters is that it has the correct engine.

As already alluded to, it is almost impossible to confirm the engine number for a chassis number.

 

Exactly, the engine # and chassis # will not match, they just installed the next engine sitting in the warehouse. The chassis # can be roughly dated to a range of engine #'s. The factory did make note of the numbers and at one time the Ferrari would verify what engine and transmission numbers where original to the chassis. They did it for free and emailed a certificate to you with the date of manufacture, exterior color and interior color listed. They stopped doing that about 20 years ago and then monetized the service as Ferrari Classiche.

Pick any motor and stick it in any car!

 

As posted, they don;t "match" but instead "fall into a range" of numbers that would "seem right"....

You can sometimes see the original color by looking next to the gas cap door, or inside the doors.
That engine is mising the rubber covers on the distributors, otherwise looks ok.

...and the air cleaner lid fasteners are totally wrong, looks like 1/4" bolts?
Egads....but everything is fixable.

 

Is this still the case? I was under the impression that it was stopped...

 

Exactly this.

Although there is no strict absolute logic which would be consecutive numbers attributed to consecutive chassis, there is « some logic » nevrtheless that we could sum-up by saying that « batches » of engine numbers were attributed to « batches » of chassis numbers. An exception here and there might never be absolutely ruled out, but by comparing engine numbers (when known) from cars with a chassis number close to the one of the car considered, we could say that the engine number appears coherent with the chassis number, or not. As said just above, the logic is not absolute and an exception might never be ruled out, but the engines were NOT attributed « at random ».

Some « versions » of the cars have a correspondance between engine numbers and chassis numbers that are more logical, or tight, than others ; the logic is quite tight for instance for the « dry sump » cars.

It becomes more difficult to follow when the V8 were used in others cars : for instance, wet sumps in 308GT4 and 308 GTS and US GTBs, two-valve injected in GTBis, GTSis and « Mondial 8 », etc...

Also many GTSis had there engines changed under warranty.

So there is « a certain loose logic » in engine numbers, even if it is not a « tight logic ».

For instance, 328s between chassis 80246 and 80838 have engine generally in the 16100 to 16990 range, but at least six cars have an engine in the « older » 10xxx range (don’t ask me why, ‘cause I don’t know ; furthermore, the lists of cars by chassis numbers are already not complete, AND the lists of engine numbers are even more scarce, so...)

Or the numberisation of engines might change : for instance, as far as the 3,2 engine goes, there is a « jump » in numbers used, from 33XX suddenly to 10XXX (= there are no known engine with a number between these brackets) that happened at the end of 1987, about chassis 755xx.

So no « matching numbers », but a certain « loose logic » nevertheless. With exceptions, of course (this is Ferrari...and makes more misteries to dwelve about)

Rgds

 

My last remaining US car, a 308GTB sold new in Canada, had an engine failure at about 6K miles, one would assume the replacement unit, shipped under warranty, would be "close enough" for any Classiche effort.

But it's not high on my priorities....

 

I definitely find it interesting how hard it is to track down this information outside of classiche. I guess it may be Ferrari’s way of monetizing everything. I have owned many other marques in the past and finding information on original engine numbers and paint codes wasn’t so difficult. Even Maserati was able to write me a letter one time, from the factory, documenting production numbers and engine/chassis numbers of a car I had absolutely free of charge. I would have thought the most prestigious marque in the car world would be doing all they can to document their history, if not for the customers, at least to document brand prestige.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Truth is, they "threw it out"...

I have run across this in my world, engineering that was "on paper"was often discarded as everything moved to digital.
So it's not a real surprise when someone cannot bring it up with typing on a screen.

 

A big (and friendly) Ferrari dealer can tell you if your car left the factory, or not, with the numbers and color you are giving to them.
Where are you based?

 

Ferrari did issue such letters in the past, that is until 2005/2006, free of charge. They also answered enquiries about the date of build of a car (day/month/year).
Then it stopped, for the reasons your are exposing, and probably also for avoiding legal "bundle of snakes" if a car has been represented by a seller to be "in original" colors, but actually wasn't, etc...
The only solution is now through "classiche", but it costs a not inconsiderable sum of money; if it is for discovering that everythig is in order, fine; but should you pay to discover that the car cannot be certified, well...

Rgds

 

Ferrari is actually quite obstructionist in those efforts. They have instead chosen to place themselves as the "worlds sole information source" or at least want to be. As already said its solely for the purpose of monetizing anything Ferrari someone might be willing to pay for.

 

It's interesting what is and isn't in our document folders in the Classiche Department. I was there last June and I asked to see the documents on three cars, mine and two others I knew well when I was a kid - and these three coincidentally spanned the three versions, carbed, 2Vi and 4V of the 308 series.

the 77 GTB was a thick folder of mostly correspondence between the dealer, Ferrari and the bank. Lots of telegrams with one or two sentences. Email of the era I suppose. Very little formal standardization with the information on the car. It was all there but just scattered around on different pages. One of the options was "wide star wheels".

The 1981 and my 84 were nearly identical in format and that consisted of three pages, one was a standardized form with the options listed and checked off by hand for each car. This was repeated on another sheet. The rest was a bunch of order dates, start and completion dates, where it was going and what was traveling with it. Fun reading. The folder itself was part of the document. The cover had pre printed info all cars shared and blanks left for the individual cars it went with to be filled in by hand later when the car was ordered and construction began.

I looked for two specific numbers: the body number that is under that little flap back in the engine compartment and the engine number, neither were listed in any part of the information.

And I was standing there when they pulled the book off the shelf and pulled out the folders. I saw it all.

I'm not sure where Ferrari stores its engine number/chassis number info but it isn't in the folder you would think it would be in.

They were unbelievably nice and helpful. I had to wear white gloves (they supplied them) but they let me read everything.

 

Back in 02 I wrote FNA and got a nice letter on FNA letterhead telling me a little about my car. It wasn't much but it was free. It's framed in my office.

 

My experience at Classiche was the same as yours. It was very helpful and interesting. They did everything I asked…..except make photocopies. A few cars were being fettled for auction and Eric Clapton’s Lusso was in for service.

 

Lol

No photo copies for me either. Good thing I have a pretty good memory.

I wanted to look at two more but I was afraid to ask. Maybe next time.

 

Pictures taken by Ferrari of me in Classiche looking at the documents. They sent these to me about two weeks after I got home. Nice surprise. I didn't notice they were snapping pictures because I was so distracted.
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It's too bad that Ferrari doesn't operate a program like the British Motor Museum with their Heritage Trust Certificate. I purchased a certificate for my 1965 Triumph TR4a from them for about $60. They offer the service for most of the British car brands.
https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates

My certificate lists:
chassis #
engine #
body#
spec (LHD, NA market)
exterior color
interior color (and leather option)
convertible top color
build date
date dispatched from the factory
destination (dealer in the US)
key numbers
listing of all options fitted during the factory build
the dock in the UK that it was shipped from

even the name of the ship!

With that info I found that the dealer was later found guilty of fraud involving warranty work payments from Triumph and tax fraud.
I also found information on the ship that brought the car over, the mighty BROTT, built in Norway 1957, scrapped in Spain 1986.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The British are great record keepers and archivists. The Italians….not as much.

 

And that is the funny thing Tommy. Back in the 80s we were ordering quite a few build sheets for various cars being sold, bought restored etc. It was a simple and not very expensive process. They sent us what was in the archives. Some cars the blanks in the sheets were all filled in, all the information you could have wanted was available but more often than not the blanks were mostly blank and nearly no information was available. Now, suddenly in the modern era 40 years later with a company that is famous for not caring about last year and never looks backwards, when big money is to be made they claim to know everything about every car they ever made.

 

That thought has crossed my mind as well